Well I'm sure you know as much as I do and have spent as much time as I have in Iran. I suppose you also support the anti Castro Cubans here in the US as well as the anti Chavez elements of Venesuela too. If not, then you have a different standared for a Muslim country than you do for those non-Muslim countries. Those two countries I have just mentioned by the way stand in solidarity with Iran. --- Felashi Ofan <felashiofan@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: > Well, since this is now the "Defend Revolutionary > Iran!" list, I guess > my post won't be off-topic. > > Could someone who has been certified as qualified to > comment on Iran > please explain to me why these brilliant > renaissance-men (irony > intentional) scholars and scientists are performing > what is usually > considered a police function -- checking for felony > convictions and > citizenship? Don't they have much better things to > do with their > mighty intellects? > > Three languages? -- big deal. The kid who butters my > bagel at the deli > speaks three languages. > > Boy, things were so much better when The Great > Khomeini was still > alive. People knew better than to write bad stuff or > have gay sex > then. Now that the Great Leader has died, God's will > is stymied and > the world has gone to hell. > > Also, would people stop expressing opinions on what > happens outside > their own zip code (or zip codes they frequent)? > It's obvious that if > you haven't lived in a place for years you can't > know the first thing > about it. All the news reports are false. In fact, > all secondhand > knowledge is just idle rumor. Only people who have > been run over by a > car are qualified to pass judgment on such a thing. > > > > --- In NewPacifica@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "L. Mirza" > <haq4u@...> wrote: > > > > Richard,I see you are the true judge of who is fit > to > > decide issues in Iran. High placed Ulema in Iran > have > > spent 40 to 60 years in intensive Islamic studies > as > > well as in science, mathematics, history, language > > (None speak, read and write, less than three > languages > > with total fluency and many speak, read and right > many > > other languages as well. > > > > You don't have the slightest knowledge of the > Howza > > system in Najaf, Iraq, and in Qom, Iran. So please > > stop and learn the true facts before making > blanket > > statments. The Shia Ulema (Clergy) are generally > > highly educated and not some foaming at the mouth > mad > > "mullahs" the western sterotypes them as. It is > time > > some people get a real and authentic education > from > > real Muslims instead of fox tv and hollywood. > > > > --- Richard <rsierra7@...> wrote: > > > > > Thanks, but with a council of mullahs making the > > > final judgements I would > > > think orthodox religious criteria, those more or > > > less conservative, would > > > also have come into play. To limit the time > frame > > > and keep things > > > contemporary I'm concentrating on the later > years > > > and not the previous > > > tumultuous period. > > > > > > Trying to keep it short and to the point.... /R > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > From: NewPacifica@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > > > [mailto:NewPacifica@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]On > > > Behalf Of L. Mirza > > > Sent: Tuesday, May 30, 2006 6:52 AM > > > To: NewPacifica@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > > > Subject: RE: [NewPacifica] Re: Neither U.S. > > > Aggression Nor Theocratic > > > Repression > > > > > > > > > Those candidates are screened for, citizenship, > > > criminal activities, records or other acts that > > > according to the constitution in Iran would bar > them > > > from holding office. I do believe here in the US > > > there > > > are restrictions such as a felony conviction, > and > > > proof of citizenship requirements. > > > > > > In the first years of the Islamic Revolution, > three > > > entire elected parliaments were bombed, killing > 80% > > > or > > > more, and such bombings of shrines and places of > > > religious gatherings as well as parliament, that > > > have > > > gone on since the beginning and continue even to > > > this > > > day, should not surprise anyone that candidtes > are > > > scrutinized for past activities. > > > > > > The vast majority appear to have been > disqualified > > > for, felony convictions, anti state activities, > and > > > belonging to groups that have used violence and > > > unlawful acts as defined in the Iran > constitution. > > > I > > > have a copy of the Iran constitution, that was > given > > > to me years ago, though I'm not sure where I've > > > stored > > > it. You can print out a copy on line I am sure. > > > > > > And the upper echelon of clerics in Iran > actually > > > are > > > the MOST honorable. It is in the lower echelons, > > > particularily in the villages and small towns > where > > > there is far more corruption and misuse of their > > > position. > > > > > > --- Richard <rsierra7@...> wrote: > > > > > > > I think the problem has been upper echelon > clerics > > > > screen the electorial > > > > candidates. /R > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: NewPacifica@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > > > > [mailto:NewPacifica@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]On > > > > Behalf Of L. Mirza > > > > Sent: Monday, May 29, 2006 8:18 PM > > > > To: NewPacifica@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > > > > Subject: Re: [NewPacifica] Re: Neither U.S. > > > > Aggression Nor Theocratic > > > > Repression > > > > > > > > > > > > That theocracy does not stop the Iran people > from > > > > either voting for the candidates of their > choice > > > and > > > > from speaking freely. Every time I'm in Iran I > get > > > > an > > > > ear full!!!! And not always very flattering > things > > > > about their own country. Now I've been around > > > enough > > > > in really repressive countries to know that if > > > Iran > > > > was a bad as the west tries to make it, then > no > > > one > > > > would dare to be as publically vocal and > critical > > > as > > > > they are in Iran. One only has to watch our > > > > maintream > > > > news and public affairs programming, such as > 60 > > > > Minutes, Nightline, 20 20 and PBS' Frontline, > and > > > so > > > > on, when they do stories about Iran and see > those > > > > highly outspoken, sometimes to the outrageous > > > > extremes > > > > to see that having a public opinion in Iran > does > > > not > > > > ususally get one in jail. If no one here > thinks > > > the > > > > government of Iran doesn't watch American TV, > and > > > > see > > > > those interviews, especially the ones of > > > university > > > > students, and candid comments in the streets, > they > > > > are > > > > pretty stupid! Now Iran is not as "free" as it > is > > > > here > > > > for some forms of expression, such as the > press, > > > but > > > > when it comes to the entire region, Iran is > > > > hands-down > > > > the most liberal country when it comes to > freedom > > > of > > > > expression and definately the most democratic. > > > > > > > > All I can say to Ed Pearl is that he is > expressing > > > > that exact type arrangence I hear on all sides > of > > > > the > > > > policical sprectrum in the west. > > > > > > > > I know that Saudi Arabia, Iraq under saddam > and > > > > Jordan > > > > have to be the three most repressive places > when > > > it > > > > comes to expressions of opinion less than > > > flattering > > > > of their government. In all three places, > where I > > > > have > > > > been and seem for myself, such criticism one > hears > > > > freely in Iran, could leave one quite dead in > a > > > > hurry! > > > > > > > > --- Terry Goodman <tiji@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > My in-line responses to several posts are > below, > > > > > after a lengthy but > > > > > edited version of the post that started the > > > > thread. > > > > > > > > > > On Thursday, May 25, Ed Pearl quoted the > > > Campaign > > > > > for Peace and Democracy: > > > > > > > > > > <snip> > > > > > >> > > >> Although a full-scale invasion of > Iran > > > > is > > > > > highly > > > > > >> > > >> unlikely at the moment, there can > be > > > > > little doubt > > > > > >> > > >> that the neoconservatives in the > Bush > > > > > >> > > >> administration have a grand > strategy > > > > that > > > > > includes, > > > > > >> > > >> eventually, "regime change" in > Tehran > > > as > > > > a > > > > > way > > > > > >> > > >> of further enlarging U.S. imperial > > > > power. > > > > > > > > > > <snip> > > > > > >> > > >> We, on the other hand, care very > much > > > > > >> > > >> about the ability of the Iraqi and > > > > Iranian > > > > > people > > > > > >> > > >> to control their own societies, > about > > > > > civil > > > > > >> > > >> liberties and the rights of women, > > > gays, > > > > > workers, > > > > > >> > > >> and ethnic minorities there. That > is > > > why > > > > > we raise our > > > > > >> > > >> voices against the current threats > to > > > > Iran > > > > > and call > > > > > >> > > >> for immediate withdrawal of all > U.S. > > > > > forces from > > > > > >> > > >> Iraq. > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> We too would like to see a regime > > > change > > > > > in > > > > > >> > > >> Tehran, but one brought about by > the > > > > > Iranian people > > > > > >> > > >> themselves, not by Washington. For > 26 > > > > > years Iran > > > > > >> > > >> has been ruled by a repressive > > > > theocracy. > > > > > Behind > > > > > >> > > >> the formal trappings of democracy, > > > real > > > > > power is held > > > > > >> > > >> by an un-elected oligarchy of > clerics; > > > > all > > > > > electoral > > > > > >> > > >> candidates must receive their > > > approval, > > > > > and their authority > > > > > >> > > >> is enforced by gangs of religious > > > thugs. > > > > > > > > > > <snip> > > > > > >> > > >> In recent years there has been > growing > > > > > resistance > > > > > >> > > >> within Iranian society, > particularly > > > > from > > > > > workers > > > > > >> > > >> fighting privatization and > > > unemployment > > > > > and young > > > > > >> > > >> people chafing against social and > > > > > political repression. > > > > > >> > > >> This resistance holds the promise > of > > > > > bringing > > > > > >> > > >> grassroots democratic change to > Iran. > > > > > > > > > > <snip> > > > > > >> > > >> We therefore strongly oppose any > > > effort > > > > by > > > > > Tehran > > > > > >> > > >> to acquire nuclear weapons. But > as > > > long > > > > > as a > > > > > >> > > >> handful of nations arrogate to > > > > themselves > > > > > the exclusive > > > > > >> > > >> right to possess nuclear weapons, > the > > > > > have-nots will > > > > > >> > > >> always be able to point to the > threat > > > > > posed by the > > > > > >> > > >> nuclear powers and will constantly > > > seek > > > > to > > > > > acquire such > > > > > >> > > >> weapons for themselves -- as North > > > Korea > > > > > has already > > > > > >> > > >> done, withdrawing from the > > > > > Non-Proliferation Treaty > > > > > >> > > >> regime. > > > > > > > > > > <snip> > > > > > >> > > >> We call for a new democratic U.S. > > > > foreign > > > > > policy > > > > > >> > > >> that would deal with the threat > posed > > > to > > > > > all of us by > > > > > >> > > >> terrorist networks, and by weapons > of > > > > mass > > > > > destruction, > > > > > >> > > >> and promote real democracy in the > > > Middle > > > > > East and > > > > > >> > > >> elsewhere, by: > > > > > >> > > >> > > > > > >> > > >> Renouncing the use of military > > > > > intervention > > > > > <snip> > > > > > >> > > >> Ending U.S. support for > authoritarian > > > > and > > > > > corrupt > > > > > >> > > >> regimes, e.g. Saudi Arabia, the > Gulf > > > > > states and > > > > > >> > > >> Egypt. > > > > > <snip> > > > > > >> > > >> Opposing all forms of terrorism > > > > worldwide > > > > > -- > > > > > <snip> > > > > > >> > > >> Supporting the right of national > > > > > self-determination > > > > > <snip> > > > > > >> > > >> Taking unilateral steps toward > > > > renouncing > > > > > weapons > > > > > >> > > >> of mass destruction, including > nuclear > > > > > weapons, > > > > > <snip> > > > > > >> > > >> Abandoning the effort to impose, > > > through > > > > > the IMF/World > > > > > >> > > >> Bank or unilaterally, neoliberal > > > > economic > > > > > policies of > > > > > >> > > >> privatization and austerity > > > > > <snip> > > > > > >> > > >> Initiating a major foreign aid > program > > > > > directed at popular > > > > > >> > > >> rather than corporate needs. > > > > > <snip> > > > > > > > > > > On May 25, 2006, Loraine Mirza wrote: > > > > > > > > > > >> > > >This is bullshit, big time. How dare > > > > others > > > > > who > > > > > >> > > > do not live in Iran tell the Iranis > > > what > > > > > form of > > > > > >> > > > government they should have. > > > > > > > > > > The CPD Statement does not tell Iranis what > form > > > > of > > > > > government they > > > > > should have. It supports the ability of the > > > > Iranian > > > > > people to control > > > > > their own societies and describes the > current > > > > > government in Iran as a > > > > > repressive theocracy that denies them that > > > > ability. > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > I applaud the majority of the Irani > > > > working > > > > > class, and > > > > > >> > > > working poor for their good > judgement > > > in > > > > > chosing the > > > > > >> > > > government. I wonder how many on > that > > > > list > > > > > of signatories > > > > > >> > > > has actually been in Iran, has > actually > > > > met > > > > > thousands of those > > > > > >> > > > "theocrats" label them. > > > > > > > > > > The CPD description of clerical veto power > in > > > Iran > > > > > is accurate, and > > > > > the choices available to Iranis is thereby > > > > > circumscribed. > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > Sure like the pr! iviliged classes > in > > > > Cuba > > > > > and > > > > > >> > > > Venueseula, the wealthy Iranians > don't > > > > > support > > > > > >> > > > the Islamic government. But the > working > > > > > class and > > > > > >> > > > the poor know exactly what they > want! > > > In > > > > > the elections > > > > > >> > > > before this one they tried a > so-called > > > > > moderate (Khatamie) > > > > > >> > > >and after being neglected, burned > and > > > > > watching > > > > > >> > > > their society turn into greedy > western > > > > > style consumerism, > > > > > >> > > >70% of the people of Iran came out > and > > > > > voted, and > > > > > >> > > > the majority voted for the most > > > religious > > > > > of the candidates. > > > > > > > > > > There is no denying that the Irani majority > > > wants > > > > > religious > > > > > government, but the "western" values of > > > individual > > > > > freedom and social > > > > > justice need not conflict with this choice > nor > > > > lead > > > > > to the greedy > > > > > consumerism seen by many as their natural > result > > > > > under the strict > > > > > limits of acceptable political dialogue. > The > > > CDP > > > > > argues for a third > > > > > way, in which such choices are made in an > > > > > environment within which > > > > > alternatives may be freely discussed because > > > human > > > > > and individual > > > > > rights are protected rather than threatened > by > > > > > government. > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > You know the left/progressive > > > > intelligencia > > > > > is not > > > > > >> > > > so superior as they claim. They > just as > > > > > ignorant > > > > > >> > > > and prejudice and the neo-cons. > > > > > > > > > > It's a prejudice against tyranny and > > > > > authoritarianism with a sound and > > > > > intelligent basis in both history and > political > > > > > theory. > > > > > > > > > > On Thursday, May 25, 2006, Altaf Bhimji > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > >> > > Yes, I agree totally with Loraine. I > got > > > > the > > > > > same > > > > > >> > > impression --- this is the same as > the > > > > > neo-con... you > > > > > >> > > wish for "elections" but if people > elect > > > > > someone > > > > > >> > > you don't like... well then you go > about > > > > > wishing > > > > > >> > > for "regime change" --- How is that > > > really > > > > , > > > > > when it > > > > > >> > > comes down to it, any different than > the > > > > > neo-con > > > > > >> > > imperialists? > > > > > <snip> > > > > > > > > > > The difference is clearly stated "We too > would > > > > like > > > > > to see a regime > > > > > change in Tehran, but one brought about by > the > > > > > Iranian people > > > > > themselves, not by Washington." This > supports > > > the > > > > > concept of > > > > > anti-imperialist self-determination, which > the > > > CPD > > > > > statement argues is > > > > > impossible under a repressive regime, even > if > > > > > democratically elected. > > > > > > > > > > On May 26, 2006, Richard Sierra wrote: > > > > > > > > > > >> > The new left opposes Bush (christian > > > > > conservative) > > > > > >> > and the aligned Iraqi gov (islamic > > > > > conservative) and > > > > > >> > they don't adhere to the Pres's form of > > > > > imperial > > > > > >> > democracy nor do they support christian > Law > > > > > (Old Testament) > > > > > >> > and, finally, they don't approve of > islamic > > > > > Sharia. State > > > > > >> > legal systems and movements based on > the > > > Law > > > > > and > > > > > >> > Sharia are traditional and patriarchal. > > > > > > > > > > Neither Christianity nor Islam need be > > > > conservative > > > > > or fundamentalist. > > > > > It is the conservative fundamentalism of > Sharia > > > as > > > > > typically > > > > > implemented that the new left finds itself > > > > opposing, > > > > > rather than > > > > > Sharia itself. If the clerics interpreting > the > > > > > Koran under Sharia > > > > > were progressive libertarian anarchists > intent > > > on > > > > > limiting government > > > > > interference in private matters, and if > Sharia > > > was > > > > a > > > > > structure of > > > > > civil law separate from the criminal law and > > > used > > > > > primarily for the > > > > > resolution of disputes, there would be > little > > > > > problem, especially if > > > > > submission to its dictates was voluntary. > > > > > > > > > > >> > The new left everywhere and whatever > its > > > form > > > > > is > > > > > >> > anti-patriarchalism and its many > > > > > manifestations. > > > > > <snip> > > > > > > > > > > Oh, I don't know about that. It's perhaps > > > > generally > > > > > true of the > > > > > feminist new left, but not all of the new > left > > > is > > > > or > > > > > has been > > > > > consciously feminist and most new left > thinkers > > > > > still treat children > > > > > as property or chattel -- the primary > evidence > > > of > > > > > patriarchy or > > > > > matriarchy, in my view. > > > > > > > > > > Altaf Bhimji <altafb@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > >> > this so-called "new left" however does > wish > > > > for > > > > > >> > regime changes in areas of the world > that > > > it > > > > > knows > > > > > >> > nothing about - and as such is > reactionary, > > > > > imperialist, > > > > > >> > and patriarchical (sure... it does not > > > > > advocate > > > > > >> > military intervention, but it ends up > > > feeding > > > > > the beast > > > > > >> > that it supposedly opposes ) ... > because it > > > > > does not > > > > > >> > believe in self-determination --- or > the > > > > > notion that > > > > > >> > people may decide to live in ways other > > > than > > > > > the > > > > > >> > "new-left" ideology. And if a people do > > > chose > > > > a > > > > > form > > > > > >> > of govt other than "new-left", the > new-left > > > > > will attribute > > > > > >> > that to "theocratic repression" or just > > > plain > > > > > >> > backwardness of people (who then need > to be > > > > > >> > "educated" on the virtues of the "new > > > left"). > > > > > > > > > > I have no idea what "new left" Altaf is > > > describing > > > > > above. To the > > > > > little extent that it was concerned with > > > > > geopolitics, the 1960's new > > > > > left generally opposed imperialism and > supported > > > > > national liberation > > > > > struggles, as in Algeria, Vietnam, and Latin > > > > > America. There was a > > > > > Maoist influence in the new left, but it was > not > > > > > dominant; and where > > > > > ideological "re-education" was imposed by > > > > > governments, that was > > > > > generally by communists, who have a > distinctly > > > > > different general > > > > > philosophy more closely allied with old left > > > than > > > > > new. New left > > > > > thinking is generally anti-authoritarian and > > > > > pro-liberty, yet Altaf > > > > > implies the opposite. > > > > > > > > > > >> --- Richard <rsierra7@...> wrote: > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > The multicultural left isn't the new > left. > > > > In > > > > > the > > > > > >> > Sixties the then new left > > > > > >> > strongly supported the Kashmiri muslims > and > > > > > LEFT > > > > > >> > muslims everywhere > > > > > >> > including Indonesia, South Yemen, and > > > Israel. > > > > > /R > > > > > > > > > > This statement somewhat implies a monolithic > > > > > uniformity in > > > > > geopolitical perspective that is not at all > > > > > characteristic of the new > > > > > left, which is more about liberty, culture, > and > > > > > counter-culture than > > > > > about religions or nation-states and their > > > > > alignments. Anarchists and > > > > > radical libertarian socialists among Hindus, > > > > > Muslims, Budhists, > > > > > Atheists, or Christians can all find > "support" > > > in > > > > > the new left, for > > > > > the little that support may be worth. > > > > > > > > > > Ref: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/New_Left > > > > > > > > > > On Saturday, May 27, 2006, Loraine Mirza > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > <snip> > > > > > >> if you go back into archives you can hear > for > > > > > >> yourself the Ravi Shankar, John Lenon, > and > > > > > >> Joan Biaz concerts to raise money for > > > > Bangladesh. > > > > > > > > > > >> (Even when there was no Bangladesh, BTW) > > > > > > > > > > There was a Bangladesh at the time of the > > > > concerts, > > > > > but it was not yet > > > > > an independent country. > > > > > > > > > > "The people of the then East Pakistan > declared > > > > > independence on 26th > > > > > March, 1971 and won a nine-month long war > of > > > > > independence and became > > > > > independent on 16th December, 1971." > > > > > > > > > > Ref: > http://www.citechco.net/bangladesh/history/ > > > > > > > > > > "The Concert For Bangladesh was the event > title > > > > for > > > > > two benefit > > > > > concerts held on the afternoon and evening > of > > > > August > > > > > 1, 1971, playing > > > > > to a total of 40,000 people at Madison > Square > > > > Garden > > > > > in New York." > > > > > > > > > > Ref: > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Concert_for_Bangladesh > > > > > > > > > > See also: > > > > > > > > > > > > > > http://www.banglamusic.com/news/patriotic/ > libaration_war_and_song_of_banglad > > > > esh_12122002.html > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Richard Sierra wrote: > > > > > > > > > > >> > > Regrets to those objecting to the > LAAMN > > > > > post's content but > > > > > >> > > there was never any possibility of > an > > > > > American secular new left > > > > > >> > > supporting religious governments > whether > > > > > christian, j! ewish, islamic > > > > > >> > > or whatnot. The separation of > > > > > church/temple/mosque and state principle > > > > > >> > > forestalls any such support. /R > > > > > > > > > > Yes, but the American secular new left's > lack of > > > > > support for religious > > > > > government is not necessarily direct > opposition. > > > > > The left can simply > > > > > oppose religion-inspired suppression of > rights > > > > > without condemning > > > > > religious governments. This allows for > populist > > > > > internal reform and > > > > > the expansion of human rights even under a > > > > > government which has > > > > > institutionalized religion.. > > > > > > > > > > On Friday, May 26, 2006, Loraine Mirza > wrote: > > > > > > > > > > >> > Well then the secular left should stop > > > being > > > > so > > > > > >> > arragent and trying to impose their > > > > philosophy > > > > > on > > > > > >> > others. What is the difference between > them > > > > and > > > > > >> > bush's regime change policy? > > > > > > > > > > The threat to impose regime change by force > from > > > a > > > > > separate nation is > > > > > quite different than support for reform from > > > > within. > > > > > > > > > > >> > They want secular then they live > > > > > >> > here and work on the areas needed of > change > > > > and > > > > > >> > correction here and not call for > "regime" > > > > > change in > > > > > >> > countries they do not live or vote in > or > > > try > > > > to > > > > > >> > interfer in those countries. > > > > > > > > > > These activities are not mutually exclusive. > > > > There > > > > > is an > > > > > international declaration of human rights > which > > > > all > > > > > peoples can > > > > > support, domestically and internationally. > > > > > > > > > > >> > Iran, BTW, IS a > > > > > >> > DEMOCRACY! They have had elections > > > > > >> > since the Islamic revolution, including > > > two, > > > > > not > > > > > >> > just one vote, on the type of > government > > > they > > > > > wanted; a > > > > > >> > secular or religious. They have term > limits > > > > as > > > > > well > > > > > >> > for the President, who can only serve > for > > > two > > > > > terms, > > > > > >> > then has to wait it out two terms > before > > > > > running > > > > > >> > again. Even their constitution was put > to a > > > > > >> > referendom before being finally > adopted. > > > I've > > > > > been in Iran > > > > > >> > during the Iran and Iraq war when > people > > > > dodged > > > > > misiles > > > > > >> > being dropped on them in order to get > to > > > the > > > > > poles and > > > > > >> > votes. 83% of qualified voters turned > out > > > > > during > > > > > >> > the elections during the Iraq imposed > and > > > > U.S. > > > > > >> > sponsored war. That was more than > > > impressive, > > > > > but amazing, > > > > > >> > when we see here, hardly 25-30% > registered > > > > > voters, not > > > > > >> > just qualified voters, turn-out in > many > > > > > elections. > > > > > > > > > > The CPD statement acknowledges "the formal > > > > trappings > > > > > of democracy." > > > > > > > > > > >> > It is indeed NOT thercratic oppression > when > > > > the > > > > > >> > popular votes decide the form of > government > > > > is > > > > > to > > > > > >> > be from a religious perspective. > > > > > > > > > > It is theocratic oppression when clerics can > > > > > disqualify electoral > > > > > candidates and where religion is used as the > > > basis > > > > > to veto popular > > > > > laws seeking an expansion of individual > > > liberties. > > > > > It is theocratic > > > > > oppression where a religious government > > > suppresses > > > > > free expression and > > > > > basic human rights on the basis of > scriptural > > > > > interpretation. We're > > > > > seeing more of that here in the U.S., > despite > > > our > > > > > constitutional > > > > > guarantees, and it is only ideological > > > consistency > > > > > to object to > > > > > tyranny both here and abroad. Democracy and > > > > liberty > > > > > are different > > > > > sorts of things -- neither one guarantees or > is > > > a > > > > > prerequisite for the > > > > > other. Absolute democracy is tyranny of the > mob > > > > and > > > > > human rights > > > > > abuses can occur under every form of > government. > > > > > > > > > > --Terry Goodman, KPFK Delegate > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Loraine > > > > = = = = = = = = = = = > > > > Read "Internment Camps of Bangladesh," by > Loraine > > > > Mirza > > > > Published by Crescent International > Newspapers, > > > Inc. > > > > 300 Steelcase Road West, Unit 8, Markham, > Ontario, > > > > Canada L3R 2W2 > > > > "The story of a long-suffering people told > with > > > > compassion and sensitivity. > > > > All who care for justice must read this book. > > > > Loraine Mirza, an American > > > > Muslim print and broadcast journalist, has > written > > > > this remarkable account > > > > of the 'Stranded Pakistanis,' trapped in > > > internment > > > > camps in Bangladesh > > > > since 1972." (Zafar Bangash, Director of > Institute > > > > of Contemporary Islamic > > > > Thought.) > > > > For more information: > > > > e-mail: haq_for_u@... > > > > info@... > > > > crescent@... > > > > crescent.uk@... > > > > Visit web sites: > > > > www.statelesspeopleinbangladesh.net > > > > www.strandedpakistanis.com > > > > www.OBATHelpers.org > > > > www.muslimedia.com > > > > www.ihrc.org > > > > - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > --------------------~--> > > > Home is just a click away. Make Yahoo! your > home > > > page now. > > > > > > http://us.click.yahoo.com/DHchtC/3FxNAA/yQLSAA/xYTolB/TM > > > > > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > ~-> > > > > > > > > > New Pacifica Working Group > > > http://www.egroups.com/group/NewPacifica > > > 'Save Our Stations!' > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > NewPacifica-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Loraine > > = = = = = = = = = = = > > Read "Internment Camps of Bangladesh," by Loraine > Mirza > > Published by Crescent International Newspapers, > Inc. > > 300 Steelcase Road West, Unit 8, Markham, Ontario, > Canada L3R 2W2 > > "The story of a long-suffering people told with > compassion and > sensitivity. All who care for justice must read this > book. Loraine > Mirza, an American Muslim print and broadcast > journalist, has written > this remarkable account of the 'Stranded > Pakistanis,' trapped in > internment camps in Bangladesh since 1972." (Zafar > Bangash, Director > of Institute of Contemporary Islamic Thought.) > > For more information: > > e-mail: haq_for_u@... > > info@... > > crescent@... > > crescent.uk@... > > Visit web sites: > www.statelesspeopleinbangladesh.net > > www.strandedpakistanis.com > > www.OBATHelpers.org > > www.muslimedia.com > > www.ihrc.org > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > --------------------~--> > Get to your groups with one click. Know instantly > when new email arrives > http://us.click.yahoo.com/.7bhrC/MGxNAA/yQLSAA/xYTolB/TM > --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> > > > New Pacifica Working Group > http://www.egroups.com/group/NewPacifica > 'Save Our Stations!' > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > NewPacifica-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > > > > > > Loraine = = = = = = = = = = = Read "Internment Camps of Bangladesh," by Loraine Mirza Published by Crescent International Newspapers, Inc. 300 Steelcase Road West, Unit 8, Markham, Ontario, Canada L3R 2W2 "The story of a long-suffering people told with compassion and sensitivity. All who care for justice must read this book. Loraine Mirza, an American Muslim print and broadcast journalist, has written this remarkable account of the 'Stranded Pakistanis,' trapped in internment camps in Bangladesh since 1972." (Zafar Bangash, Director of Institute of Contemporary Islamic Thought.) For more information: e-mail: haq_for_u@xxxxxxxxxxx info@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx crescent@xxxxxxxxxxxx crescent.uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx Visit web sites: www.statelesspeopleinbangladesh.net www.strandedpakistanis.com www.OBATHelpers.org www.muslimedia.com www.ihrc.org ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> You can search right from your browser? It's easy and it's free. See how. http://us.click.yahoo.com/_7bhrC/NGxNAA/yQLSAA/xYTolB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> New Pacifica Working Group http://www.egroups.com/group/NewPacifica 'Save Our Stations!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NewPacifica/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: NewPacifica-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/