Thanx Melinda for the added info. on this ... did not read it b/4 i sent out my other e-mail... so the information on this one came out quicker than i expected... also i agree with you re: the nature of psychosis, and depression - and according to Islamic laws, a person who does not have control over their mental faculties, they are not held responsible - no doubt this would apply to disorientation as a result of torture. Altaf -----Original Message----- >From: Melinda Smith <melsbasketcase@xxxxxxxxx> >Sent: May 19, 2006 2:04 PM >To: NewPacifica@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "Northrup, Robert" ><robert.northrup@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> >Subject: Re: [NewPacifica] Guantanamo Prison Guards, Inmates Clash > >http://www.alertnet.org/thenews/newsdesk/N19304523.htm >US describes intense fight with Guantanamo inmates >19 May 2006 20:16:23 GMT >Source: Reuters >Printable view | Email this article | RSS [-] Text [+] > > (Adds details) > >WASHINGTON, May 19 (Reuters) - Ten Guantanamo prisoners lured U.S. >guards into a room with a staged suicide attempt, then attacked them >with broken light fixtures, fan blades and other improvised weapons >before being overpowered, U.S. officials said on Friday. > >U.S. officials at the detention center described Thursday's clash as >the most intense outbreak of violence at the jail for foreign >terrorism suspects at the U.S. naval base at Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, >since it opened in January 2002. > >"The detainees had slickened the floor of their block with feces, >urine and soapy water in an attempt to trick the guards. They then >assaulted the guards with broken light fixtures, fan blades and bits >of metal," said Navy Rear Adm. Harry Harris, who commands the >detention operation. > >U.S. personnel used pepper spray and then blasted the inmates with >several shots from a shotgun that fired rubber balls to gain control >of the inmates, U.S. official said. The fighting lasted four to five >minutes, they said. > >U.S. officials said the fight involved 10 inmates and 10 U.S. guards. >Earlier in the day, U.S. officials said two other detainees attempted >suicide, and that those two men remain unconscious but are in stable >condition at the base. > >On 5/19/06, Kevin White <cuitlacoche1@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: >> >> >> >> I wish I had Loraine's "mind of steel." >> >> >> >> >> Melinda Smith <melsbasketcase@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: >> Well you are a member of a vicious religion if suicide cannot be >> forgiven. A psychotic person could suffer from delusions and >> hallucinations that God speaks to them commanding them to kill >> themselves. In true psychosis the person holds these things to be true >> and cannot be argued down no matter the evidence. >> >> Things like sleep deprivation, which is probably happening in >> Guantanamo, can bring someone into a psychotic break. The prisoners >> had been stockpiling prescription meds in order to commit suicide. >> Could we assume they were psychiatric medications? >> >> Suicide can be a way of gaining control when you no longer feel in >> control of the situation. If no one is there to help you a psychotic >> state can last for a long time. Prisons are not a good place to be >> while psychotic. You can be in a cell all day with your voices. >> >> You are also not respecting the severity of depression absent >> psychosis. Depressed people have irrational thoughts that all is >> rotten and things will not get better. The men in Guantanamo are in a >> rotten place. They have no real representation and no idea if they >> will ever get out. >> >> Lorraine must have one of those minds of steel that can never be >> fucked with. I am truly impressed. Lorraine is blaming them for not >> being strong enough. The potential for self-destruction is in all of >> us. It usually comes about after being in profound mental duress for >> an extended period. >> >> Psychosis has a unique way of making you not trust anything. So why >> trust Allah at that point? Psychotic people have been in contact with >> hallucinations posing as good entities. We are not talking about >> gracious Gods here. The gods they expect us to have faith in. We have >> gods who drown the world to wipe the slate clean. Well, God could not >> be called a good social worker. A good social worker works with those >> considered rotten and weird. Social workers do not make it a business >> to smite people they work with. >> >> Melinda Smith =^..^= >> >> On 5/19/06, L. Mirza <haq4u@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: >> > >> > FYI >> > I don't know what kind of "Muslims" these men are to >> > attempt or to commit suicide. Suicide is absolutely >> > forbidden in Islam and one of the few things one can >> > never be forgiven for. >> > >> > I realize conditions at Guantanamo are barbaric but I >> > am sure conditions for detainees in the aparthied >> > regime of South Africa were just as deplorable, but >> > there were rarely reports of suicide. >> > >> > One risking life and dying during defending family, >> > country or rights is not the same as suicide and is >> > the model for martyrdom in Islam. Thus, for example, >> > if these Guantanamo prisoners were killed during an >> > escape attempt, that would NOT be considered suicide >> > and could even fall under the criteria martyrdom. >> > >> > >> > --- Kevin White <cuitlacoche1@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: >> > >> > > Guantanamo Prison Guards, Inmates Clash 1 >> > > hour, 6 minutes ago >> > > >> > > >> > > Prisoners wielding improvised weapons clashed with >> > > guards trying to stop a detainee from committing >> > > suicide at the U.S. prison in Guantanamo Bay, Cuba, >> > > the military said Friday. >> > > The fight occurred Thursday in a medium-security >> > > section of the camp as guards were responding to the >> > > fourth attempted suicide that day at the detention >> > > center on the U.S. Navy base, said Cmdr. Robert >> > > Durand. >> > > Detainees used fans, light fixtures and other >> > > improvised weapons to attack the guards as they >> > > entered a communal living area to stop a prisoner >> > > who was trying to hang himself, Durand said. >> > > Earlier in the day, three detainees in another >> > > part of the prison attempted suicide by swallowing >> > > prescription medicine they had been hoarding. >> > > The detainees who took part in the clash with >> > > guards were moved to higher-security sections. >> > > Those who attempted suicide received medical >> > > treatment, the military said. Their names were not >> > > released. >> > > The incidents occurred on the same day the >> > > military transferred 15 Saudi detainees to their >> > > country, leaving about 460 detainees at Guantanamo. >> > > There have been 39 suicide attempts at Guantanamo >> > > since the prison opened in January 2002, the >> > > military said. At least 12 were by Juma'a Mohammed >> > > al-Dossary, a 32-year-old from Bahrain. >> > > Guantanamo Bay holds detainees suspected of links >> > > to al-Qaida or the Taliban. >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > >> > > --------------------------------- >> > > Feel free to call! Free PC-to-PC calls. Low rates on >> > > PC-to-Phone. Get Yahoo! Messenger with Voice >> > >> > >> > Loraine >> > = = = = = = = = = = = >> > Read "Internment Camps of Bangladesh," by Loraine Mirza >> > Published by Crescent International Newspapers, Inc. >> > 300 Steelcase Road West, Unit 8, Markham, Ontario, Canada L3R 2W2 >> > "The story of a long-suffering people told with compassion and sensitivity. >> > All who care for justice must read this book. Loraine Mirza, an American >> > Muslim print and broadcast journalist, has written this remarkable account >> > of the 'Stranded Pakistanis,' trapped in internment camps in Bangladesh >> > since 1972." (Zafar Bangash, Director of Institute of Contemporary Islamic >> > Thought.) >> > For more information: >> > e-mail: haq_for_u@xxxxxxxxxxx >> > info@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx >> > crescent@xxxxxxxxxxxx >> > crescent.uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx >> > Visit web sites: www.statelesspeopleinbangladesh.net >> > www.strandedpakistanis.com >> > www.OBATHelpers.org >> > www.muslimedia.com >> > www.ihrc.org >> > >> > >> > >> > New Pacifica Working Group >> > http://www.egroups.com/group/NewPacifica >> > 'Save Our Stations!' >> > >> > >> > >> > ________________________________ >> > YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS >> > >> > Visit your group "NewPacifica" on the web. >> > >> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >> > NewPacifica-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx >> > >> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. >> > To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >> > NewPacifica-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx >> > >> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. >> > Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. >> > ________________________________ >> > >> > >> >> >> -- >> Melinda Smith =^..^= >> http://angelfire.com/zine/melsbasketcase >> >> >> >> >> >> ________________________________ >Talk is cheap. Use Yahoo! Messenger to make PC-to-Phone calls. >> Great rates starting at 1¢/min. >> >> >> New Pacifica Working Group >> http://www.egroups.com/group/NewPacifica >> 'Save Our Stations!' >> >> >> >> >> >> New Pacifica Working Group >> http://www.egroups.com/group/NewPacifica >> 'Save Our Stations!' >> >> >> >> >> >> SPONSORED LINKS >> Issues Pacifica Culture >> Participant Forging >> >> >> ________________________________ >YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS >> >> >> >> Visit your group "NewPacifica" on the web. >> >> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >> NewPacifica-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx >> >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. >> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: >> NewPacifica-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx >> >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. >> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of Service. >> >> >> ________________________________ > >> >> > > > >-- >Melinda Smith =^..^= >http://angelfire.com/zine/melsbasketcase > > > >New Pacifica Working Group >http://www.egroups.com/group/NewPacifica >'Save Our Stations!' >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> You can search right from your browser? It's easy and it's free. See how. http://us.click.yahoo.com/_7bhrC/NGxNAA/yQLSAA/xYTolB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> New Pacifica Working Group http://www.egroups.com/group/NewPacifica 'Save Our Stations!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NewPacifica/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: NewPacifica-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/