Thought I'd respond since your bruised ego gets upset if I don't. Below your posting my responses:
evan davis <evan@xxxxxxxxxxx> wrote:
I told you; I'm fishing these e-mails out of the "trash". My filters
direct them there rather than to my "in-box".
Eileen: Your trash is your trash - I still call you a liar
Evan: As for your laziness here, again is the relevant section from my post
from earlier this week that you seem so reticent to answer.
Eileen: All folks have to do is see how just about everyone on this list will clip a post and only respond to what they like. Terry Goodman, who responds to me often does this. He often does not respond to particulars in my posts, as is his right - this being a private list.....
Evan: "As far as I know minutes of all LSB meetings are available in printed
form for the asking as well as numerous audio recordings of the actual
meetings plus all LSB and PNB meetings are either open for any member to
attend or are netcast live. Therefore Eileen's assertion that Pacifica's
governance is not "transparent" is simply untrue.
Eileen: This is news to me - for the asking did you say? Where does one ask and how does the average listener-sponsor who votes blindly find this information. Take a poll Evan - go after listeners who want to support Pacifica and find out just how little they know. A Governance section within a Folio sent out at specific intervals will indeed give folks an opportunity to learn - what's going on.... Folks should not have to ask - if what you say is true....As I see it folks will be directed to the Internet, the only place to learn anything.......
Evan: To prove her other claim, that Pacifica is "unaccountable to its voting constituency" Eileen will need to offer more substance. For instance; is ALL of Pacifica "unaccountable"? Are the programmers, PD's, GM's, LSB's, PNB
and all of the various committees unreachable? Are they un-responsive?
Eileen: What crap is this you want me to weigh in here....... Yes, folks are secretive and unresponsive to the listener-sponsors - that's my answer for your question needs someone on the inside to answer.
Evan: Are the by-laws not being adhered to? Is the PNB unable to achieve a
quorum or a majority in order to set policy and is the ED refusing to
execute policies set by the PNB? Is the ED issuing instructions to the
GM's that the GM's are refusing to follow?
Eileen: Good questions from the little postings I've read - these Bylaws are a dead duck in water - Why is that
Evan?
Evan: Are requests for critical financial data not being answered by the CFO or by the GM's? Eileen offers no specifics yet states as though it were a universally acknowledged fact that "Pacifica is unaccountable and non-transparent". She offers no proposals for addressing the vague and generalized problem(s) she alleges."
Eileen: As a listener complaining of not receiving proper information this is another stupid question. I'd like to see a financial section, as well, in a Folio....
Evan: I'll add here that Eileen appears to be one of those people who insists
on the right to cry "fire" in a theater but who can't take the heat of
an ordinary kitchen (figuratively speaking, of course).
Evan
P.S.
I did not carry this correspondence to the other lists you've forwarded
this exchange to. I'm doing so now - and just this once as a courtesy to
the other folks you've exposed and to
say to THEM; if any of you feel
this exchange warrants your attention ad you want clarification
regarding my point of view I'll be happy to answer you off-list.
Eileen: typical exchange in which Evan belittles and tries to hurt me with words....
My suggestion: Reconfigure what posts you want to respond to and leave the trash for trash - you're a liar Evan and it appears you have nothing better to do than hassle me.......
In conclusion: After a long period of just reading this board - I responded to Melinda's post with a comment that had nothing to do with her thought. My concerns were of how dead this board was on discussing Pacifica issues. If I kick you folks in the butt from time to time - it is worth it, to me, if as a result I can inspire folks to post some good thoughts like what's happen in discussion of a folio.....
Let me repeat - it
would be a great idea to find consensus on those ideas folks are agreeing on and I welcome all the suggestions and ideas - that's all they are here Evan, simply put - you've got a bug up your behind because I got the better of you one time.....
Eileen J. Goodman
Eileen Goodman wrote:
> just what I expected from you - lot's of hot air.....
> again, since your filter appears to be working fine and you appear to
> be the liar - tell this board - what are you talking about and what
> answers have I refused to answer. I'm hoping people read the archives
> of this list because the false picture you are trying to paint, now -
> doesn't wash.... as I said - folks have thanked me for my time and
> efforts posting concerns....... If there was not a person, such as
> myself, as I'm a lone voice here - this board would be dead - a place
> for announcements as the very latest past
emails will confirm.......
> Eileen J. Goodman
>
> */evan davis /* wrote:
>
> As you well know all one need do is to read back just a few
> e-mails in
> this exchange to come across the one in which I posed a series of
> questions to you - questions which you still refuse to answer
> preferring, apparently instead to turn the light of inquisition back
> upon me though it was you, not I who made the initial charges
> regarding
> Pacifica's "transparency" and "accountability". I've neither
> denied nor
> supported those charges but merely challenged you to substantiate
> them
> and yet you've accused me further of holding a particular point of
> view
> which you claim to disagree with and yet you also refuse to
> identify or
> define.
> If your conduct here were to exemplify the standards of discourse and
> debate to which
Pacifica may be expected to aspire then surely
> we're not
> only doomed but an embarrassment to the whole of intellectual
> development - I plane which seemingly dangles above you like the
> grapes
> to Aesop's fox.
> Evan
>
> Eileen Goodman wrote:
> > Evan,
> > Your post speaks for who, what...... Just for clarity and since you
> > boast of accuracy - For the record - why don't you list what it is
> > I've compained about - since others need to know - let's understand
> > now - just what is it - I've (your words) refused to speak about,
> > those readers out there needing to know, what is it I refuse to
> > answer.......
> > Eileen J. Goodman
> >
> > */evan davis /* wrote:
> >
> > My filters are back on and working just fine. I'm fishing these
> > messages out of the trash to respond to them and I'm doing it
only
> > out
> > of a sense of loyalty ( to Pacifica) and confronting your "big lie"
> > techniques simply on principle - and you still haven't
> > substantiated any
> > of your charges ( undoubtedly because you can't) yet you insist on
> > taking further liberties by proliferating more of them.
> > Evan
> >
> > Kevin White wrote:
> > > Just as I was about to think, since you admit you don't have a
> > radio,
> > > that your lack of grip on reality was just ignorance, you go and
> > do this.
> > > I think I now understand what Edwin means by "Pacifica Loon."
> > > K
> > >
> > > */Eileen Goodman /* wrote:
> > >
> > > Typical response from a Carol Spooner Progressive faction member.
> > > The big difference between us - I support you and you want to get
> > >
rid me hoping ridicule will do it (it might). Let me repeat myself
> > > - I don't play your games. I post from my heart - spontaneously -
> > > carefree. I'm enjoying everyone's suggestions for a folio and give
> > > myself credit for starting the conversation.
> > > Something tells me your filter is not working or you are just
> a liar
> > > Eileen J. Goodman
> > >
> > > */evan davis /* wrote:
> > >
> > > As predicted Eileen has declined to address any of my
> > > questions nor
> > > substantiate her charges. Instead she has multiplied them.
> > > Eileen says that she "got the better of him" (me) when she
> > > refused
> > > to support some spurious and defamatory claim she made after I
> > > demonstrated that her statement was false and challenged her
> > > to prove
>
> > otherwise. If that's the way Eileen wins an argument then
> > > perhaps she
> > > could sign on as co-counsel for the defense in the coming
> > > trial of Karl
> > > Rove. As for the rest of us we'll extract what little
> > > entertainment
> > > value we can from Eileen's claim that she "represent(s) the
> > > listener".
> > > And, to answer Eileen's charge; yes I did recommend a board
> > > trainer - several, in fact and yes, the board(s) ( some of
> > > them, anyway)
> > > did eventually receive some training (though not from any of
> > > the people
> > > I recommended). It's a ritual that needs to be conducted on a
> > > periodic
> > > basis until a culture of efficiency can be established that
> > > can be
> > > passed on to new incoming board
members.
> > > Evan
> > >
> > >
> > > Eileen Goodman wrote:
> > > > All this attention and energy focused on me. Since I know the
> > > > hostility of you folks and have pointed it out - I should
> > > thank you
> > > > for your comments.
> > > >
> > > > Some of us are just listeners who do not spend enormous
> > > amounts of
> > > > time trying to stay with all that happens in Pacifica. Some
> > > of you
> > > > folks are involved and need to, I quess - still where has
> > > all the time
> > > > and energy you've spent being informed in any way gotten you
> > > - gotten
> > > > Pacifica.
> > > >
> > > > You complain now, saying these bylaws are the answer but
> > > that folks
> >
> > don't follow the bylaws, did you folks ever think that would
> > > happen, I
> > > > did, considering the cooperation it will take for the bylaws
> > > to be
> > > > effective.....
> > > >
> > > > Yes, it's true - I'd rather bring folks together despite their
> > > > differences and support anyone's right to participate. Yes,
> > > it's true
> > > > I've been extremely critical of you folks.
> > > >
> > > > So Evan doesn't remember what our little go around was -
> > > since I got
> > > > the better of him - it was just after the passing of Bylaws,
> > > during
> > > > the first elections when most of you folks finally realized
> > > even the
> > > > best of the professionals needed training. Evan said he had
> > >
just the
> > > > man for the job..... I wonder did anyone hear Evan - did he
> > > follow
> > > > through on this idea he had for training folks. Did folks get
> > > > trained......
> > > >
> > > > Sorry folks but I don't play your games and all this posting
> > > you've
> > > > done says to me - someone heard this listener-sponsor
> > > dedicated to a
> > > > good tomorrow for all.
> > > >
> > > > If you folks want a real peace, a real understanding of your
> > > fellow
> > > > human you're going to have to get off your elitist cloud and
> > > find
> > > > peace with ordinary people, like myself.
> > > >
> > > > Most folks are like me. I represent the listener out there
> > > and I
> > > >
complain we are not a networked powered by the people - not
> > > yet.... If
> > > > folks are going to work towards that goal Pacifica needs to
> > > inform us
> > > > so we can be a powerful group supporting Pacifica.
> > > >
> > > > So many people have thanked me for my posting. I've said,
> > > > hey participate...but hear - no way do they want to be
> > > subjected to
> > > > the crap you folks have just so carelessly shown towards me.
> > > And all
> > > > because I've had the courage to be critical of your
> > > power-group, I've
> > > > started to call the Carol Spooner progressive faction.
> > > >
> > > > Eileen J. Goodman
> > > >
> > > > */Richard /* wrote:
> > > >
> > > > Good feet on the ground
post.
> > > >
> > > > A few thoughts:
> > > >
> > > > 1) Folios quarterly or monthly? Years back WBAI's were
> > > monthly with
> > > > unobtrusive mom and pop adverts. Fine. 'course the station
> > > was more
> > > > volunteer oriented then so I assume running the station was all
> > > > around less
> > > > expensive.
> > > >
> > > > 2) Speaking for myself with dial-up I can't take advantage
> > > of video
> > > > streaming and often audio is "chunky" and I think it's not
> > > only a
> > > > problem
> > > > for me.
> > > >
> > > > 3) What bothers me also is what I perceive as a failure
> > > (KPFA) to put
> > > > sufficient info on the air re PBN electorial candidates. I
think
> > > > in the
> > > > past too much reliance was placed on the comp and elsewhere.
> > > > Nothing can
> > > > adequately substitute for open, on-air DISCUSSIONS and debates.
> > > >
> > > > 4) It would aid listeners if PNB/LSB print voting records were
> > > > available on
> > > > a website. As is overall so much time is required to dig out
> > > > fundamental
> > > > info from the web it's discouraging. Maybe it's partially my
> > > > fault....time
> > > > considerations.
> > > >
> > > > /R
> > > >
> > > > -----Original Message-----
> > > > From: NewPacifica@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > [mailto:NewPacifica@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]On
> > > > Behalf Of evan davis
> > > > Sent: Monday,
May 15, 2006 10:03 AM
> > > > To: NewPacifica@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> > > > Subject: Re: [NewPacifica] you have been dealt with.
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > I'm all for restoring the Folios, including articles on LSB
> > > > elections, minutes, candidates statements, etc. and for
> > > devoting air
> > > > time to the same. As far as I know minutes of all LSB
> > > meetings are
> > > > available in printed form for the asking as well as numerous
> > > audio
> > > > recordings of the actual meetings plus all LSB and PNB
> > > meetings are
> > > > either open for any member to attend or are netcast live.
> > > Therefore
> > > > Eileen's assertion that Pacifica's governance is not
> > > "transparent" is
> > > > simply untrue. To prove her
other claim, that Pacifica is
> > > > "unaccountable
> > > > to its voting constituency" Eileen will need to offer more
> > > substance.
> > > > For instance; is ALL of Pacifica "unaccountable"? Are the
> > > programmers,
> > > > PD's, GM's, LSB's, PNB and all of the various committees
> > > unreachable?
> > > > Are they un-responsive? Are the by-laws not being adhered to? Is
> > > > the PNB
> > > > unable to achieve a quorum or a majority in order to set
> > > policy and is
> > > > the ED refusing to execute policies set by the PNB? Is the
> > > ED issuing
> > > > instructions to the GM's that the GM's are refusing to
> > > follow? Are
> > > > requests for critical financial data not being answered by
> > > the CFO
> > > > or
by
> > > > the GM's? Eileen offers no specifics yet states as though it
> > > were a
> > > > universally acknowledged fact that "Pacifica is
> > > unaccountable and
> > > > non-transparent". She offers no proposals for addressing the
> > > vague and
> > > > generalized problem(s) she alleges. Is her post therefore a
> > > legitimate
> > > > _expression_ of opinion or a malicious broadside?
> > > > The last time I had a go-around with Eileen she had made a
> > > > claim in
> > > > one of her posts that I knew she could not substantiate
> > > (don't ask me
> > > > what it was as I no longer have the stored messages). I
> > > challenged her
> > > > to either back up her claim or retract it. She did neither
> > > but she
> > > >
took
> > > > a more conciliatory tone for a while. That's her typical
> > > game; she
> > > > belches out some hit-and-run barbs attacking individuals or
> > > groups
> > > > within Pacifica - or in this case Pacifica in its entirety,
> > > then she
> > > > spars with the few folks who take the time to call her on her
> > > > shenanigans and when someone calls upon HER to be
> > > accountable she
> > > > slips
> > > > in to "oh, why can't we all just get along" mode.
> > > >
> > > > I'm happy to debate, discuss, brainstorm and work toward
> > > > resolution with anyone who has views regarding Pacifica that
> > > > differ from
> > > > my own and to do so with civility and respect but that requires
> > > > coherence and sincerity on the
part of both parties engaged
> > > in the
> > > > dialogue. When it comes to the Eileens among us; as a friend
> > > said
> > > > recently on another list in response to a raging Zionist
> > > "freeper"
> > > > whose
> > > > posts attacked everyone and made no discernible sense;
> > > "Didn't your
> > > > mother teach yu never to enter a battle of wits un-armed"?
> > > > Evan
> > > > wendy wrote:
> > > > > Eileen certainly has the right to post - She doesn't have
> > > immunity
> > > > > from the questioning of what the hell she is talking about
> > > though.
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > >
> >
>
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