but ...that many people (including you, Richard, apparently) seem to be
calling for and needing a "moderator"
You know something I don't?
Please advise as to how, when or where I have called for or expressed a need
for a moderator?
Have you missed the point or just avoiding them?
me
jdemaegt@xxxxxxxxxxxxx wrote:
Well to me the issue is NOT just (or even mostly) the "NP" listserv at
all but rather the concept of "moderation" in general - and to me the issue is
ALL the Pacifica related listservs. And my point is NOT that the NP
"moderator" is a Fuehrer but that many people (including you, Richard,
apparently) seem to be calling for and needing a "moderator" and thus, in my
opinion calling for and needing a "leader" (i.e a Fuehrer) to solve disputes
and to restore ORDER to the discussions on the listserv(s) and to Pacifica
affairs.
Jim "Try Democracy and forget the need for 'leaders' to save us." D.
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard
To: jdemaegt@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 8:33 PM
Subject: RE: [Fulcrumsofchange] posting rules and ORDER by the
"Leaders","Owners" "Moderators"
Ok, I've gone way overboard today - in a sense- and will not be doing
any more posting for a least 3 days. Sorry for the trouble.
Jim:
The issue isn't list serves, it's this listserve so?.
You got it. All evidence sez folks are generally satisfied with the NP
list's moderator....excepting poor you of course.
No, you have no authority to say "proceed?. Stop dreaming.
I?m outta here. J /R
-----Original Message-----
From: fulcrumsofchange-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:fulcrumsofchange-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
jdemaegt@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 7:33 PM
To: NewPacifica@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; fulcrumsofchange@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [Fulcrumsofchange] posting rules and ORDER by the
"Leaders","Owners" "Moderators"
Yea - suggesting that Pacifica affairs actually be democratically
run is ridiculous - too "rad", too "anarchistic" too extreme - instead we
need "important ones" and "great ones" to run Pacifica affairs and some day
it will be determined just who gets to be the "important ones" and "great
ones" but that just might take a whole lot of infighting on the Pacifica
related listservs. And people are pretty happy with the way things are
going and the way Pacifica is going so - continue on - and fight on and
insult each other ad infinitem - as long as everyone enjoys themselves then
proceed.
Jim "Democracy at Pacifica - absurd." D.
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard
To: NewPacifica@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 7:16 PM
Subject: RE: [NewPacifica] posting rules and ORDER by the
"Leaders","Owners" "Moderators"
You know what Jim's bs writings are? His exercise in moral duplicity
("Deliberate deceptiveness in behavior or speech, contradictory doubleness
of thought, speech, or action; especially : the belying of one's true
intentions by deceptive words or action"), that's all. I rarely sit down and
analyze his garbage in any detail. Why bother? I read a few sentences and
pass the rest by. Any fool can use false charaterizatons, word
substitutions, un-reconciled dualistic word positionings, double or multiple
theses/anti-theses, and shifting perspectives as well as all the rest of
it..values included of course. One wonders why he troubles himself with his
absolutistic use of the english language.
Now the below is reason-able which he can be when chooses to be:
But I note: Elsewhere he labeled the moderator of this list "Fuehrer".
On hindsight whether he used "dictator" or "nazi"..as in the past, I could
care less.
Then there's the same old tired rad anarchist call for a bottom up
democratic list. All I need saying on that is the One Man Revolution can't
even interest a single soul to follow his pathetic call. Some leader. I'm
surprised he can even organize himself enough to get out of bed in the
morning. /R
------------------------------------------------------------------------------
From: NewPacifica@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:NewPacifica@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]
On Behalf Of jdemaegt@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 1:46 PM
To: NewPacifica@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; fulcrumsofchange@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx;
pacificaradiowaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [NewPacifica] posting rules and ORDER by the
"Leaders","Owners" "Moderators"
I never called the NP moderator either a dictator or a Nazi.
What I am saying is that it is standard practice in and on all the
"Pacifica related" listservs (i.e not official Pacifica listservs but
listservs that many who are "active" in Pacifica affairs are on) oppose
democratically elected "moderators" and oppose the selection of "rules" by
democratic votes and instead need "rules" and "order" given to them by self
selected "leaders" .
And I contend that that "culture" and "pattern and practice" of
failing to respect and practice Democracy throughout Pacifica is what is a
big, big cause of the contestant bickering and personal attacks and the
constant fights for "who is in charge." If the Pacifica "culture" and
"pattern and practice" does not respect and practice democracy in every way
possible then the bickering and constant slide toward oblivion and
self-destruction will go on until the end of Pacifica is reached,
Jim "The only hope for Pacifica out of its current self-destructive
mess and its slide toward total destruction is to begin to actually
PRACTICE Democracy in EVERYTHING related to Pacifica and to END the need for
Fuehrers - even very nice and fair and good Fuehrers (or "leaders" or
"moderators" or "owners" if you prefer) - We Don't Need No Stinking
Fuehrers" D.
----- Original Message -----
From: Richard
To: NewPacifica
Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 11:08 AM
Subject: [NewPacifica] RE: [Fulcrumsofchange] posting rules and ORDER
by the "Leaders","Owners" "Moderators"
You make too many good posts so I don't complain. But the NP
moderator is neither a dictator nor a nazi so get real, man, and clean your
pretentious rhetoric up. /R
-----Original Message-----
From: fulcrumsofchange-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
[mailto:fulcrumsofchange-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
jdemaegt@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 9:58 AM
To: NewPacifica@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; fulcrumsofchange@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx;
pacificaradiowaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
Subject: [Fulcrumsofchange] posting rules and ORDER by the
"Leaders","Owners" "Moderators"
Richard wrote: "Would Peck's Bad Boy,
please, sit down? /R"
------------------------
Well if this sufficiently provokes you then you will have to file
a
complaint with the "owner","moderator" - Fuehrer won't you? Please
reestablish ORDER!
Jim "Sometime you really have to RULE those nasty people who do
things
different than you - but don't worry YOU will never be censored or
banned
yourself - yea right -go Fuehrer Go reestablish ORDER!" D.
----- Original Message -----
From: "Richard" <rsierra12@xxxxxxxxx>
To: "NewPacifica" <NewPacifica@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 9:45 AM
Subject: [NewPacifica] RE: [Fulcrumsofchange] posting rules and ORDER
>I take it Jim's referring to the NP board (and others) though he
conflates
> Pac with NP. He's up to his usual treadworn gripe re the
board....equating
> proper execution of executive authority with fascism. Would Peck's
Bad
> Boy,
> please, sit down? /R
>
> -----Original Message-----
> From: fulcrumsofchange-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> [mailto:fulcrumsofchange-bounces@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of
> jdemaegt@xxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 9:21 AM
> To: NewPacifica@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx; fulcrumsofchange@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx;
> pacificaradiowaves@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx;
rocklandfriendsofwbai@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx
> Subject: Re: [Fulcrumsofchange] posting rules and ORDER
>
> I think that as many people as possible should set themselves up
as
> 'leaders" and "moderators" and "owners" and "insiders" and
"experts" and
> "great ones" in general - the new Pacifica Fuehrers. That is after
all the
> Pacifica way. Then the "great ones" - our Fuehrers -should make as
many
> "rules" as possible that everyone else (the "little ones") MUST
obey. We
> NEED that ORDER! PLEASE BRING ORDER TO US! The new Pacifica Reich
need
> ORDER! And the new Pacifica "leaders" - i.e the Fuehrers are
needed to
> BRING ORDER TO US!
>
> PLEASE RULE US!
>
> NO DEMOCRACY AT PACIFICA PLEASE!
>
> Actually electing all 'leaders" and "moderators" and "owners"
and
> "insiders" and "experts" and "great ones" Democratically would just
not
> work
>
> at Pacifica - it is not in the Pacifica tradition. So wannabe be
> Fuehrers -
> Please set yourselves up and appoint yourselves if you want to be
one of
> the 'leaders" and "moderators" and "owners" and "insiders" and
"experts"
> and
>
> "great ones" - i.e the Pacifica Fuehrers (and hopefully white
middle
> class
> Fuehrers, of course) .
> The above (Fascist) way of doing things is working sooo very
well so
> far
>
> at Pacifica - we just need some more Fuehrers and maybe more power
(more
> power, more power, more Power and some more Glory also, of course)
into
> the
> hands of the self appointed wannabe Fuehrers would help Pacifica
also. The
> Pacifica Reich will then be in good condition.
>
>
> Jim "Democracy just will not work at Pacifica - WE NEED RULES
and WE
> NEED ORDER!!!! and WE NEED SOME GREAT LEADERS - OUR FUEHRERS - TO
BRING
> ORDER TO US!!!!" D.
> ----- Original Message -----
> From: "Pamela Somers" <psomers1@xxxxxxxxx>
> To: <NewPacifica@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx>
> Sent: Monday, March 03, 2008 8:46 AM
> Subject: [NewPacifica] Re: posting rules
>
>
>> postscript: I should have added that if I receive a complaint I
will
>> certainly intervene (and have) to do what I can to rectify a
>> situation. I realize that some people are more sensitive than
others
>> to personal attacks. But unless there is an explicit request, or
>> something is particularly grievous (such as libel) I don't see it
as
>> my job to be monitoring and policing posts.
>>
>> Pam
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