I don't know about Lorraine, but I've actually known people in polygynous marriage and 1 triad of two men married to one woman. I've also known plenty of battered, raped women in monogamous marriages. With marriage, it's spin the wheel, hope for the best and try to act like a grown-up. My conclusion is that there is nothing inherent in any form of marriage that is good or bad for women independent of their status in society. One polygynous marriage was two Navajo sisters who married one man so they kept from having to split their inheritance. The position of women is high in Navajo society with the right to own land, to initiate divorce, etc. I think that guy minded his p's and q's. I've known an African woman, from a society where women had low status, who swore she would never enter a polygynous marriage because her father kept pitting his wives and children against each other. Don't blame her since women get treated like dirt where she came from...no right to own property or divorce, both of which are key for women's status. The woman with the two husbands and her mates certainly seemed happy, although the guys did not stay together once she died (of breast cancer) Oh, and I've reviewed carefully the Tanakh (Old Testament, for non-Jews...For Jews it's nobody's old anything). Also Quran. I cannot find a single incident where polygynous marriage made anyone happy. But go check for yourselves. Camilla. At 02:01 PM 6/3/2006, L. Mirza wrote: >not taking the bait. > >--- pmmcooke <pmmcooke@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > > If Ms Mirza could only read this she would surely > > come to > > understand that polygamy is a *good thing.* > > > > Iraq legalized it for the good of women after '91 > > Gulf War > > (too few men). (Oh wait - since Hussein's removal, > > don't tell > > me the matrimonial laws have been changed yet again? > > N-n-n-nah.) > > > > (Hussein was far more religious than given credit > > for - he > > also allowed honor killings to be brought back, if > > I'm not > > mistook.) > > > > Oh Ms Mirza, pick and choose religious law is never > > a wise > > thing for a woman to indulge in, much less should > > she judge > > the law or question another woman's (women's?) > > husband. > > > > --- In NewPacifica@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "L. Mirza" > > <haq4u@...> wrote: > > > > > > He has been interviewed by Amy Goodman, I believe > > for > > > the first time the year she went on a tour all > > over > > > the country to promote her book. That first > > interview > > > took place in Denver, where he was living at the > > time. > > > I recall another interview with him from her NY > > > studio sometime later. Recently he was featured on > > a > > > pretty well publicized program sponsored and > > conducted > > > by Amy in New York. > > > > > > As for the spelling of his name, it could be > > spelled > > > many ways but this is the closest I can recall. So > > > supose you could play around with different > > spellings > > > and come up with the one on the internet. > > > > > > I happen to not just know of him but have met him. > > He > > > is of Iraqi origin and in his late forties or > > early > > > fiftees. Several years ago he had presented > > himself as > > > Islamic clergy, and wears the robe and turban of > > > Islamic students and scholars who have studied in > > > Howzas in Iraq, Iran, Lebanon or Syria. He was > > invited > > > by some Islamic youth groups to speak at some of > > > their gatherings. I wasn't terribly impressed with > > his > > > speeches, but speaking one to one and informally > > he > > > did impress many of our youth and young adults. > > > > > > Not long after he spoke here in Los Angeles, he > > did > > > manage to impress a dear friend, an American > > convert > > > to marry him. A few weeks after that marriage and > > her > > > joining him in Denver, I got an alarming e-mail > > from > > > him, not just to me, but to all her close friends > > she > > > was in touch with, ordering us to not attempt to > > stay > > > in touch with her. This was completely off the > > wall > > > and sounded the typical abuser attempting to > > isolate a > > > wife from friends and family. A few weeks later, > > she > > > had the good sense to leave him and return to Los > > > Angeles. That's when I learned he was not only > > still > > > married to a first wife (he had claimed he was > > > divorced) but that marriage was an abusive one. I > > also > > > learned he had not really studied for any length > > of > > > time at any Howza, or recognized Islamic school. > > > > > > Just after the US invaded Iraq I began to hear and > > see > > > him interviewed by television, broadcast and print > > > media as a source from Iraq. He was at that time > > > resident clergyman at a Denver Islamic center. > > > Recently he attempted to take total control of > > that > > > center and they finally were able to take him to > > > court and get him removed. Now he is suing the > > board > > > of directors of that center, claiming he is owed > > back > > > salary. > > > > > > Anyhow, that is my information about him and why I > > am > > > not happy with the enthusiastic embrace by Amy > > Goodman > > > or others on the left. I do believe Amy has good > > > motives but since she is not from the Muslim > > community > > > itself, she is not using a truly qualified Islamic > > > scholar as a source. > > > > > > --- Richard <rsierra7@...> wrote: > > > > > > > Loraine, I'm not familiar with Kassarooni and > > > > googling brought up nothing. > > > > Maybe the name's mispelled? Thanks. /R > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: NewPacifica@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > > > > [mailto:NewPacifica@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]On > > > > Behalf Of L. Mirza > > > > Sent: Saturday, May 27, 2006 5:33 AM > > > > To: NewPacifica@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > > > > Subject: RE: [NewPacifica] FW: [LAAMN] Neither > > U.S. > > > > Aggression Nor > > > > Theocratic Repression > > > > > > > > > > > > True, and not only are the Muslims not organized > > but > > > > recently the left has "adopted" some of the > > > > so-called > > > > self-chosen Muslims "leaders" here, such as the > > most > > > > recent example... Kassarooni who Amy Goodman met > > in > > > > Denver and now is under the false assumption she > > has > > > > found an authentic Muslim to embrace. > > > > > > > > > > > > --- Altaf Bhimji <altafb@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > > This, by the way is about the North American > > "new > > > > left" - and not Latin American left that has a > > far > > > > more nuanced view about religion - at the World > > > > Social > > > > Forum, Chavez opened his talk with a reading and > > > > discussion from the bible led by a Brazillian > > > > liberation theologian - and his talk included > > the > > > > importance about being a real true Christian - > > as in > > > > followers of Jesus (peace be upon him). (And > > > > of-course, for those who follow these things, > > they > > > > know that Presidents Chavez and Dr. Ahmedenejad > > seem > > > > to be becoming good friends ). > > > > > > > > Similarly, in England there have been some > > serious > > > > attempts of the left working with religious > > Muslims > > > > - > > > > and that resulted in the Respect Party gaining > > some > > > > 20 > > > > or so local council seats recently. (Although > > there > > > > are a lot of internal problems with Respect, > > still > > > > they've made strong outreach to Muslims, and > > they > > > > would not have had any success if they had gone > > in > > > > talking garbage about Islam and Sharia). > > > > > > > > The issue with North American left is that they > > have > > > > isolated themselves, and their views often > > borders > > > > on > > > > Islamophobia - and they can get away with this > > crap > > > > 'cause Muslims are not as well organized and > > > > established here (yet)... > > > > > > > > Altaf > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Altaf Bhimji > > > > Sent: May 26, 2006 1:27 PM > > > > To: NewPacifica@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > > > > Subject: RE: [NewPacifica] FW: [LAAMN] Neither > > U.S. > > > > Aggression Nor Theocratic Repression > > > > > > > > this so-called "new left" however does wish for > > > > regime > > > > changes in areas of the world that it knows > > nothing > > > > about - and as such is reactionary, > > imperialist, > > > > and > > > > patriarchical (sure... it does not advocate > > military > > > > intervention, but it ends up feeding the beast > > that > > > > it > > > > supposedly opposes ) ... because it does not > > believe > > > > in self-determination --- or the notion that > > people > > > > may decide to live in ways other than the > > "new-left" > > > > ideology. And if a people do chose a form of > > govt > > > > other than "new-left", the new-left will > > attribute > > > > that to "theocratic repression" or just plain > > > > backwardness of people (who then need to be > > > > "educated" > > > > on the virtues of the "new left"). > > > > > > > > Altaf > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: Richard > > > > Sent: May 26, 2006 1:13 PM > > > > To: NewPacifica@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > > > > Subject: RE: [NewPacifica] FW: [LAAMN] Neither > > U.S. > > > > Aggression Nor Theocratic Repression > > > > > > > > The new left opposes Bush (christian > > conservative) > > > > and > > > > the aligned Iraqi gov (islamic conservative) and > > > > they > > > > don't adhere to the Pres's form of imperial > > > > democracy > > > > nor do they support christian Law (Old > > Testament) > > > > and, > > > > finally, they don't approve of islamic Sharia. > > State > > > > legal systems and movements based on the Law and > > > > Sharia are traditional and patriarchal. The new > > left > > > > everywhere and whatever its form is > > > > anti-patriarchalism and its many manifestations. > > > > > > > > The new Iraqi Constitution, if I recall > > correctly > > > > via > > > > Article 2....as well as elsewhere, establishes > > > > islamic > > > > Law (Sharia) as the high FOUNDATION and supreme > > > > source > > > > of national law. > > > > > > > > Since the renaissance a secular left has existed > > > > throughout history having in our age spread over > > the > > > > face of the earth. Then too, at times, deep > > calls > > > > to > > > > deep. > > > > > > > > So it is in heaven, on earth, and in the sea. > > /R > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > From: NewPacifica@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > > > > [mailto:NewPacifica@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]On > > > > Behalf Of L. Mirza > > > > Sent: Friday, May 26, 2006 10:31 AM > > > > To: NewPacifica@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > > > > Subject: RE: [NewPacifica] FW: [LAAMN] Neither > > U.S. > > > > Aggression Nor > > > > Theocratic Repression > > > > > > > > > > > > Well then the secular left should stop being so > > > > arragent and trying to impose their philosophy > > on > > > > others. What is the difference between them and > > > > bush's > > > > regime change policy? They want secular then > > they > > > > live > > > > here and work on the areas needed of change and > > > > correction here and not call for "regime" change > > in > > > > countries they do not live or vote in or try to > > > > interfer in those countries. Iran, BTW, IS a > > > > DEMOCRACY! They have had elections > > > > since the Islamic revolution, including two, not > > > > just > > > > one vote, on the type of government they wanted; > > a > > > > secular or religious. They have term limits as > > well > > > > for the President, who can only serve for two > > terms, > > > > then has to wait it out two terms before running > > > > again. Even their constitution was put to a > > > > referendom > > > > before being finally adopted. I've been in Iran > > > > during > > > > the Iran and Iraq war when people dodged misiles > > > > being > > > > dropped on them in order to get to the poles and > > > > votes. 83% of qualified voters turned out during > > the > > > > elections during the Iraq imposed and U.S. > > sponsored > > > > war. That was more than impressive, but amazing, > > > > when > > > > we see here, hardly 25-30% registered voters, > > not > > > > just > > > > qualified voters, turn-out in many elections. > > > > > > > > It is indeed NOT thercratic oppression when the > > > > popular votes decide the form of government is > > to be > > > > from a religious perspective. > > > > > > > > --- Richard <rsierra7@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > Regrets to those objecting to the LAAMN post's > > > > > content but there was never > > > > > any possibility of an American secular new > > left > > > > > supporting religious > > > > > governments whether christian, j! ewish, > > islamic > > > > or > > > > > whatnot. The separation > > > > > of church/temple/mosque and state principle > > > > > forestalls any such support. /R > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > From: NewPacifica@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > > > > > [mailto:NewPacifica@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]On > > > > > Behalf Of Altaf Bhimji > > > > > Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2006 1:11 PM > > > > > To: NewPacifica@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > > > > > Subject: Re: [NewPacifica] FW: [LAAMN] Neither > > > > U.S. > > > > > Aggression Nor > > > > > Theocratic Repression > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Yes, I agree totally with Loraine. I got the > > same > > > > > impression --- this is the > > > > > same as the neo-con... you wish for > > "elections" > > > > but > > > > > if people elect someone > > > > > you don't like... well then you go about > > wishing > > > > for > > > > > "regime change" --- How > > > > > is that really , when it comes down to it, any > > > > > different than the neo-con > > > > > imperialists? Well the left better start get > > used > > > > to > > > > > seeing this happen all > > > > > over the mid-east... or, remain totally > > irrelevant > > > > > other than Saturday > > > > > afternoon marches... > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > > > > >From: "L. Mirza" <haq4u@...> > > > > > >Sent: May 25, 2006 11:31 AM > > > > > >To: NewPacifica@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > > > > > >Subject: Re: [NewPacifica] FW: [LAAMN] > > Neither > > > > U.S. > > > > > Aggression Nor > > > > > Theocratic Repression > > > > > > > > > > > >This is bullshit, big time. How dare others > > who > > > > do > > > > > not > > > > > >live in Iran tell the Iranis what form of > > > > > government > > > > > >they should have. > > > > > > > > > > > >I applaud the majority of the Irani working > > > > class, > > > > > and > > > > > >working poor for their good judgement in > > chosing > > > > > the > > > > > >government. I wonder how many on that list of > > > > > >signatories has actually been in Iran, has > > > > actually > > > > > >met thousands of those "theocrats" label > > them. > > > > > > > > > > > >Sure like the pr! iviliged classes in Cuba > > and > > > > > >Venueseula, the wealthy Iranians don't > > support > > > > the > > > > > >Islamic government. But the working class and > > the > > > > > poor > > > > > >know exactly what they want! In the > > elections > > > > > before > > > > > >this one they tried a so-called moderate > > > > (Khatamie) > > > > > >and after being neglected, burned and > > watching > > > > > their > > > > > >society turn into greedy western style > > > > consumerism, > > > > > >70% of the people of Iran came out and voted, > > and > > > > > the > > > > > >majority voted for the most religious of the > > > > > >candidates. > > > > > > > > > > > >You know the left/progressive intelligencia > > is > > > > not > > > > > so > > > > > >superior as they claim. They just as ignorant > > and > > > > > >prejudice and the neo-cons. > > > > > > > > > > > >--- Richard <rsierra7@...> wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > >> > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > > > > > >> From: laamn@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > > > > > >> [mailto:laamn@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of > > > > > >> Ed Pearl > > > > > >> Sent: Thursday, May 25, 2006 6:03 AM > > > > > >> To: Ed Pearl > > > > > >> Subject: [LAAMN] Neither U.S. Aggression > > Nor > > > > > >> Theocratic Repression > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Iran: Neither U.S. Aggression Nor > > Theocratic > > > > > >> Repression > > > > > >> - A call for a new, democratic U.S. foreign > > > > > policy > > > > > >> in > > > > > >> the Middle East > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Dear Friend, > > > > > >> > > > > > >> As the Administration escalates its threats > > > > > against > > > > > >> Iran, we are writing to invite you to sign > > the > > > > > >> Campaign > > > > > >> for Peace and Democracy statement "Iran: > > > > Neither > > > > > >> U.S. > > > > > >> Aggression Nor Theocratic Repression - A > > call > > > > for > > > > > a > > > > > >> new, democratic U.S. foreign policy in the > > > > Middle > > > > > >> Ea! st." The text is below. If you would > > like > > > > to > > > > > add > > > > > >> your > > > > > >> name or donate to publicize the statement, > > > > please > > > > > go > > > > > >> to > > > > > >> our website www.cpdweb.org (if for any > > reason > > > > you > > > > > >> have > > > > > >> difficulty at the website, just send us an > > > > email > > > > > at > > > > > >> cpd@...) > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Please join Michael Albert, Tom Ammiano, > > > > Stanley > > > > > >> Aronowitz, Rosalyn Baxandall, Eileen Boris, > > > > > Jeremy > > > > > >> Brecher, Noam Chomsky, Ariel Dorfman, > > Martin > > > > > >> Duberman, > > > > > >> Rusti Eisenberg, Carlos R. Espinosa, Samuel > > > > > Farber, > > > > > >> Mansour Farhang, Barbara Garson, Larry > > Gross, > > > > > Mina > > > > > >> Hamilton, Thomas Harrison, Howie Hawkins, > > Adam > > > > > >> Hochschild, Nancy Holmstrom, Doug Ireland, > > Joy > > > > > >> Kallio, > > > > > >> Larry Kramer, Joanne Landy, Jesse Lemisch, > > John > > > > > >> Leonard, Sue Leonard, Rabbi Michael Lerner, > > > > > Nelson > > > > > >> Lichtenstein, Norman MacAfee, Marvin & > > Betty > > > > > >> Mandell, > > > > > >> David McReynolds, David Oakford, Barbara > > Watson > > > > > >> Pillsbury, Henry Pillsbury, Frances Fox > > Piven, > > > > > Nancy > > > > > >> Romer, Ruth Rosen, Peter Rothberg, Matthew > > > > > >> Rothschild, > > > > > >> Jennifer Scarlott, Jay Schaffner, Sydney > > > > > Schanberg, > > > > > >> Stephen R. Shalom, Wallace Shawn, Meredith > > Tax, > > > > > >> Cornel > > > > > >> West, Cora Weiss, Peter Weiss, Edmund > > White, > > > > > >> Reginald > > > > > >> Wilson, and Howard Zinn in signing this > > > > > statement. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Signers names and affiliations (for > > > > > identification > > > > > >> only) will be listed on the Campaign for > > Peace > > > > > and > > > > > >> Democracy website and in other public > > venues. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> In peace and solidarity, > > > > > >> > > > > > >> ! Joanne Landy, Thomas Harrison, and > > Jennifer > > > > > Scarlott > > > > > >> Co-Directors, Campaign for Peace and > > Democracy > > > > > >> Please > > > > > >> go to the CPD website at www.cpdweb.org to > > > > sign, > > > > > >> donate, or see the full list of signers. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> IRAN: NEITHER U.S. AGGRESSION NOR > > THEOCRATIC > > > > > >> REPRESSION > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Just as it did before its invasion of Iraq, > > the > > > > > Bush > > > > > >> administration is manufacturing a climate > > of > > > > fear > > > > > in > > > > > >> order to prepare public opinion for another > > act > > > > > of > > > > > >> aggression -- this time against Iran. Three > > > > years > > > > > >> ago > > > > > >> it was the specter of Saddam Hussein's > > alleged > > > > > >> weapons > > > > > >> of mass destruction; today it's the threat > > of a > > > > > >> possible Iranian nuclear bomb. Washington's > > > > > >> immediate > > > > > >> goal is to get the U.N. Security Council to > > > > > impose > > > > > >> sanctions on Iran and, in all probability, > > to > > > > > >> justify a > > > > > >> military attack on Tehran's nuclear > > facilities > > > > -- > > > > > a > > > > > >> job > > > > > >> that may be outsourced to Israel. The White > > > > House > > > > > >> even > > > > > >> insists on keeping the catastrophic > > "nuclear > > > > > option" > > > > > >> on > > > > > >> the table -- that is, using tactical > > nuclear > > > > > weapons > > > > > >> to > > > > > >> strike Iranian nuclear facilities, many of > > > > which > > > > > are > > > > > >> located in or near civilian population > > centers. > > > > > >> Although a full-scale invasion of Iran is > > > > highly > > > > > >> unlikely at the moment, there can be little > > > > doubt > > > > > >> that > > > > > >> the neoconservatives in the Bush > > administration > > > > > have > > > > > >> a > > > > > >> grand strategy that includes, eventually, > > > > "regime > > > > > >> change" in Tehran as a way of further > > enlarging > > > > > U.S.! > > > > > >> imperial power. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> We strongly oppose the U.S. occupation of > > Iraq: > > > > > it > > > > > >> has > > > > > >> brought appalling suffering to the Iraqi > > people > > > > > with > > > > > >> fatalities in the tens of thousands, > > descent > > > > into > > > > > >> civil > > > > > >> war and the strengthening of the most > > > > > authoritarian > > > > > >> elements in Iraqi society -- as well as > > more > > > > than > > > > > >> 2,400 > > > > > >> U.S. soldiers dead and thousands more > > wounded. > > > > > >> Likewise, the U.S. government's attempts to > > > > bully > > > > > >> Iran > > > > > >> are succeeding mainly in terrorizing the > > > > Iranian > > > > > >> people > > > > > >> and weakening internal opposition to the > > > > mullahs. > > > > > >> The > > > > > >> Bush administration's claim that it is > > > > promoting > > > > > >> democracy in these two countries is the > > > > grossest > > > > > >> hypocrisy; its only interest is power and > > > > control > > > > > of > > > > > >> oil resources. We, on the other hand, care > > very > > > > > much > > > > > >> about the ability of the Iraqi and Iranian > > > > people > > > > > to > > > > > >> control their own societies, about civil > > > > > liberties > > > > > >> and > > > > > >> the rights of women, gays, workers, and > > ethnic > > > > > >> minorities there. That is why we raise our > > > > voices > > > > > >> against the current threats to Iran and > > call > > > > for > > > > > >> immediate withdrawal of all U.S. forces > > from > > > > > Iraq. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> We too would like to see a regime change in > > > > > Tehran, > > > > > >> but > > > > > >> one brought about by the Iranian people > > > > > themselves, > > > > > >> not > > > > > >> by Washington. For 26 years Iran has been > > ruled > > > > > by a > > > > > >> repressive theocracy. Behind the formal > > > > trappings > > > > > of > > > > > >> democracy, real power is held by an > > un-elected > > > > > >> oligarchy of clerics; all electoral > > candidates> > > > > must > > > > > >> receive their approval, and their authority > > is > > > > > >> enforced > > > > > >> by gangs of religious thugs. President > > > > > Ahmadinejad > > > > > >> is a > > > > > >> Holocaust denier who has called for the > > > > > elimination > > > > > >> of > > > > > >> Israel. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Iranian women lack some of the most basic > > human > > > > > >> rights. > > > > > >> They cannot dress, work, travel or choose > > > > spouses > > > > > >> freely. "Honor killing" is legal, and by > > law > > > > > women > > > > > >> can > > > > > >> be hanged or stoned to death for "unchaste > > > > > >> behavior." > > > > > >> Millions of Iranian women find ways to at > > least > > > > > >> partly > > > > > >> circumvent these restrictions, and > > relatively > > > > few > > > > > >> suffer the most extreme penalties. Women > > vote > > > > and > > > > > >> sit > > > > > >> in parliament, and there are significant > > > > numbers > > > > > of > > > > > >> women both in university and at the > > > > workplace.But > > > > > >> the > > > > > >> fact remains that there are few countries > > in > > > > the > > > > > >> world > > > > > >> where women face legal handicaps as severe > > as > > > > > those > > > > > >> in > > > > > >> Iran. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Workers who try to strike or form > > independent > > > > > trade > > > > > >> unions are often violently put down. Large > > > > > numbers > > > > > >> of > > > > > >> workers have not been paid for months and > > in > > > > some > > > > > >> cases > > > > > >> for years. Attempts to organize are > > frequently > > > > > >> attacked > > > > > >> by club- and knife-wielding mercenaries, > > > > security > > > > > >> forces and the military. Despite this > > > > repression, > > > > > >> workers are continuing to organize, > > however, > > > > and > > > > > >> independent unions are gaining a foothold. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> As in many countries, homosexuality is > > > > outlawed, > > > > > but > > > > > >> Tehra! n has gone further than most by > > making > > > > > >> homosexual > > > > > >> conduct by men or women punishable by death > > and > > > > > >> unleashing a vicious pogrom against Iranian > > > > gays, > > > > > >> many > > > > > >> of whom have been tortured, beaten, and > > > > publicly > > > > > >> executed. The government is carrying on a > > > > massive > > > > > >> campaign of entrapment through the > > Internet; > > > > > victims > > > > > >> are subjected to constant surveillance, > > loss of > > > > > >> employment, arrest, and violent blackmail > > that > > > > > >> forces > > > > > >> them to reveal the names of other > > homosexuals. > > > > > >> Torture > > > > > >> is used to make gay people confess to > > crimes > > > > they > > > > > >> never > > > > > >> committed. The basiji and other religious > > > > > parapolice > > > > > >> forces kidnap gay people, who are > > sequestered > > > > and > > > > > >> tortured until they name names. Gays on the > > > > > >> government's lists are forbidden to leave > > the > > > > > >> country. > > > > > >> And now Iran has exported its violent > > anti-gay > > > > > >> crusade > > > > > >> to Iraq. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> In recent years there has been growing > > > > resistance > > > > > >> within Iranian society, particularly from > > > > workers > > > > > >> fighting privatization and unemployment and > > > > young > > > > > >> people chafing against social and political > > > > > >> repression. > > > > > >> This resistance holds the promise of > > bringing > > > > > >> grassroots democratic change to Iran. The > > > > threat > > > > > of > > > > > >> military action or broader and harsher > > > > sanctions > > > > > >> from > > > > > >> outside -- and especially the horrifying > > menace > > > > > of > > > > > >> nuclear strikes --only serve to rally > > people > > > > > around > > > > > >> the > > > > > >> regime and to give it another excuse to > > clamp > > > > > down > > > > > >> on > > > > > >> dissent, inhibiting a potentially > > revolutionary > > > > > >> process > > > > > >> and strengthening the right-wing clerics. > > U.S. > > > > > >> threats > > > > > >> have already served to legitimize nuclear > > > > weapons > > > > > to > > > > > >> the Iranian people. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Under the Nuclear Non-Proliferation Treaty, > > > > Iran > > > > > has > > > > > >> the right to develop civilian nuclear > > power, > > > > > though > > > > > >> the > > > > > >> Bush administration has tried to obscure > > this > > > > > fact. > > > > > >> Many of us oppose the use of nuclear power > > by > > > > any > > > > > >> country, both for environmental reasons and > > > > > because > > > > > >> of > > > > > >> its link to nuclear weapons -- but that is > > not > > > > > the > > > > > >> issue in the present U.S.-Iran > > confrontation. > > > > > While > > > > > >> there is reason to doubt Tehran's > > assurances > > > > that > > > > > it > > > > > >> only wants to develop civilian nuclear > > energy, > > > > > Iran > > > > > >> is > > > > > >> probably still several years away from > > being > > > > able > > > > > to > > > > > >> produce nuclear weapons. And if Tehran > > acquires > > > > > the > > > > > >> bomb, it is unlikely that the ayatollahs, > > who > > > > > hold > > > > > >> decisive power, would use it since it would > > be > > > > > >> suicidal > > > > > >> to do so. Israel alone has between 200 and > > 300 > > > > > >> nuclear > > > > > >> warheads capable of striking Iran, and this > > is > > > > > not > > > > > >> counting the thousands of warheads the U.S. > > can > > > > > >> launch > > > > > >> at Iran. Nevertheless, there is no > > guarantee > > > > that > > > > > >> Iran, > > > > > >> or any other state armed with nuclear > > weapons, > > > > > won't > > > > > >> use them or make them available to others. > > As > > > > > long > > > > > >> as > > > > > >> these barbaric weapons exist, they can be > > used, > > > > > and > > > > > >> the > > > > > >> more countries that possess them the more > > > > likely > > > > > it > > > > > >> is > > > > > >> over ti! me that they will be used. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> We therefore strongly oppose any effort by > > > > Tehran > > > > > to > > > > > >> acquire nuclear weapons. But as long as a > > > > handful > > > > > of > > > > > >> nations arrogate to themselves the > > exclusive > > > > > right > > > > > >> to > > > > > >> possess nuclear weapons, the have-nots will > > > > > always > > > > > >> be > > > > > >> able to point to the threat posed by the > > > > nuclear > > > > > >> powers > > > > > >> and will constantly seek to acquire such > > > > weapons > > > > > for > > > > > >> themselves -- as North Korea has already > > done, > > > > > >> withdrawing from the Non-Proliferation > > Treaty > > > > > >> regime. > > > > > >> Likewise, Iran, which has been menaced by > > the > > > > > U.S. > > > > > >> for > > > > > >> more than two decades and was a charter > > member > > > > of > > > > > >> Bush's "axis of evil," may opt out of the > > NPT. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> An end to Washington's belligerence is a > > > > crucial > > > > > >> step > > > > > >> in preventing Tehran from joining the > > nuclear > > > > > >> "club." > > > > > >> Beyond that, the only way to stop > > proliferation > > > > > is > > > > > >> for > > > > > >> those countries that have nuclear weapons > > to > > > > > begin > > > > > >> disarming -- something the Bush > > administration > > > > > and > > > > > >> previous administrations of both parties > > have > > > > > >> refused > > > > > >> to do, despite the fact that the U.S. is a > > > > > signatory > > > > > >> to > > > > > >> the Non-Proliferation Treaty which commits > > it > > > > to > > > > > >> "pursue negotiations in good faith on > > effective > > > > > >> measures relating to cessation of the > > nuclear > > > > > arms > > > > > >> race > > > > > >> at an early date and to nuclear > > disarmament." > > > > At > > > > > the > > > > > >> same time the nuclear powers must work > > toward > > > > > >> nuclear- > > > > > >> free zones around the world, but especially > > in > > > > > the > > > > >! >>; Middle East, a particularly volatile and > > > > > dangerous > > > > > >> region. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> We call for a new democratic U.S. foreign > > > > policy > > > > > >> that > > > > > >> would deal with the threat posed to all of > > us > > > > by > > > > > >> terrorist networks, and by weapons of mass > > > > > >> destruction, > > > > > >> and promote real democracy in the Middle > > East > > > > and > > > > > >> elsewhere, by: > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Renouncing the use of military intervention > > to > > > > > >> extend > > > > > >> and consolidate U.S. imperial power, and > > > > > withdrawing > > > > > >> U.S. troops and bases from the Middle East. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Ending U.S. support for authoritarian and > > > > corrupt > > > > > >> regimes, e.g. Saudi Arabia, the Gulf states > > and > > > > > >> Egypt. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Opposing all forms of terrorism worldwide > > -- by > > > > > Al > > > > > >> Qaeda, Iraqi death squads, and Palestinian > > > > > suicide > > > > > >> bombers, and by U.S.-backed forces like the > > > > > >> Colombian > > > > > >> paramilitaries and the Israeli military in > > the > > > > > >> Occupied > > > > > >> Territories -- as well as the brutality and > > > > > >> humiliation > > > > > >> inflicted on Iraqis every day by U.S. > > > > occupation > > > > > >> forces > > > > > >> and Washington's ominous threats against > > Iran. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Supporting the right of national > > > > > self-determination > > > > > >> for > > > > > >> all peoples in the Middle East, including > > the > > > > > Kurds, > > > > > >> Palestinians and Israeli Jews. Ending > > support > > > > for > > > > > >> Israeli occupation of the West Bank and > > > > > oppression > > > > > >> of > > > > > >> the Palestinian people. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Taking unilateral steps toward renouncing > > > > weapons > > > > > of > > > > > >> mass destruction, including nuclear > > weapons, > > > > and > > > > > >> vigorously! promoting international > > > > disarmament > > > > > >> treaties, instead of obstructing even > > minimal > > > > > >> efforts > > > > > >> to end the arms race. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> Abandoning the effort to impose, through > > the > > > > > >> IMF/World > > > > > >> Bank or unilaterally, neoliberal economic > > > > > policies > > > > > >> of > > > > > >> privatization and austerity that bring mass > > > > > misery > > > > > >> to > > > > > >> people in large parts of the world. > > Initiating > > > > a > > > > > >> major > > > > > >> foreign aid program directed at popular > > rather > > > > > than > > > > > >> corporate needs. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> The majority of people in this country now > > > > > believe > > > > > >> that > > > > > >> the invasion of Iraq was disastrously wrong > > and > > > > > that > > > > > >> they were systematically lied to by the > > Bush > > > > > >> Administration about the reasons for going > > to > > > > > war, > > > > > >> and > > > > > >> they are wary of new U.S. military > > intervention > > > > > in > > > > > >> the > > > > > >> Middle East. At the same time, the > > > > > administration's > > > > > >> scare tactics may succeed in generating > > popular > > > > > >> support > > > > > >> for aerial attacks on Iran. It is therefore > > > > > >> imperative > > > > > >> to speak out now against Washington's > > threats, > > > > to > > > > > >> educate public opinion, and to build > > organized > > > > > >> opposition to aggression against Iran, as > > well > > > > as > > > > > >> support for immediate, complete withdrawal > > from > > > > > >> Iraq. > > > > > >> It is time to demand a new democratic U.S. > > > > > foreign > > > > > >> policy that genuinely expresses solidarity > > with > > > > > the > > > > > >> aspirations of people for liberty > > everywhere, > > > > > >> renounces > > > > > >> once and for all imperial intervention, and > > is > > > > > >> committed to real disarmament. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> [CPD'! s previous statements, including "We > > > > Oppose > > > > > >> Both > > > > > >> Saddam Hussein and The War Against Iraq: A > > call > > > > > for > > > > > >> a > > > > > >> new, democratic U.S. foreign policy," have > > > > > appeared > > > > > >> in > > > > > >> The New York Times, The Nation, and The > > > > > Progressive, > > > > > >> as > > > > > >> well as on many websites and listserves in > > this > > > > > >> country > > > > > >> and abroad. Your tax deductible donation > > will > > > > > enable > > > > > >> us > > > > > >> to publicize this declaration of opposition > > to > > > > > war > > > > > >> and > > > > > >> repression in these dangerous times.] > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > >>_______________________________________________________ > > > > > >> portside (the left side in nautical > > parlance) > > > > is > > > > > a > > > > > >> news, > > > > > >> discussion and debate service of the > > Committees > > > > > of > > > > > >> Correspondence for Democracy and Socialism. > > It > > > > > aims > > > > > >> to > > > > > >> provide varied material of interest to > > people > > > > on > > > > > the > > > > > >> left. > > > > > >> > > > > > >> To subscribe: > > > > > >> > > > > > > > > > > > http://lists.portside.org/mailman/listinfo/portside > > > > > > > > > > > >Read "Internment Camps of Bangladesh," by > > Loraine > > > > > Mirza > > > > > >Published by Crescent International > > Newspapers, > > > > > Inc. > > > > > >300 Steelcase Road West, Unit 8, Markham, > > > > Ontario, > > > > > Canada L3R 2W2 > > > > > >"The story of a long-suffering people told > > with > > > > > compassion and sensitivity. > > > > > All who care for justice must read this book. > > > > > Loraine Mirza, an American > > > > > Muslim print and broadcast journalist, has > > written > > > > > this remarkable account > > > > > of the 'Stranded Pakistanis,' trapped in > > > > internment > > > > > camps in Bangladesh > > > > > since 1972." (Zafar Bangash, Director of > > Institute > > > > > o! f Contemporary Islamic > > > > > Thought.) > > > > > >For more information: > > > > > >e-mail: haq_for_u@... > > > > > > info@... > > > > > > crescent@... > > > > > > crescent.uk@... > > > > > >Visit web sites: > > > > > www.statelesspeopleinbangladesh.net > > > > > > www.strandedpakistanis.com > > > > > > www.OBATHelpers.org > > > > > > www.muslimedia.com > > > > > > www.ihrc.org > > > > > - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > New Pacifica Working Group > > > > http://www.egroups.com/group/NewPacifica > > > > 'Save Our Stations!' > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > SPONSORED LINKS > > > > Issues Causes of joint pain Cause of low back > > pain > > > > Cause rheumatoid arthritis Causes of varicose > > veins > > > > Cause of diabetes > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > > YAHOO! 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Groups is subject to the > > > > Yahoo! > > > > Terms of Service. > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Loraine > > > > = = = = = = = = = = = > > > > Read "Internment Camps of Bangladesh," by > > Loraine > > > > Mirza > > > > Published by Crescent International Newspapers, > > Inc. > > > > 300 Steelcase Road West, Unit 8, Markham, > > Ontario, > > > > Canada L3R 2W2 > > > > "The story of a long-suffering people told with > > > > compassion and sensitivity. > > > > All who care for justice must read this book. > > > > Loraine Mirza, an American > > > > Muslim print and broadcast journalist, has > > written > > > > this remarkable account > > > > of the 'Stranded Pakistanis,' trapped in > > internment > > > > camps in Bangladesh > > > > since 1972." (Zafar Bangash, Director of > > Institute > > > > of Contemporary Islamic > > > > Thought.) > > > > For more information: > > > > e-mail: haq_for_u@... > > > > info@... > > > > crescent@... > > > > crescent.uk@... > > > > Visit web sites: > > > > www.statelesspeopleinbangladesh.net > > > > www.strandedpakistanis.com > > > > www.OBATHelpers.org > > > > www.muslimedia.com > > > > www.ihrc.org > > > > - > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > --------------------~--> > > > > Protect your PC from spy ware with award winning > > > > anti spy technology. It's free. > > > > > > > > > >http://us.click.yahoo.com/97bhrC/LGxNAA/yQLSAA/xYTolB/TM > > > > > > > > > >-------------------------------------------------------------------- > > ~-> > > > > > > > > > > > > New Pacifica Working Group > > > > http://www.egroups.com/group/NewPacifica > > > > 'Save Our Stations!' > > > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > > > > > > > NewPacifica-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > Loraine > > > = = = = = = = = = = = > > > Read "Internment Camps of Bangladesh," by Loraine > > Mirza > > > Published by Crescent International Newspapers, > > Inc. > > > 300 Steelcase Road West, Unit 8, Markham, Ontario, > > Canada L3R 2W2 > > > "The story of a long-suffering people told with > > compassion and > > sensitivity. All who care for justice must read this > > book. Loraine > > Mirza, an American Muslim print and broadcast > > journalist, has written > > this remarkable account of the 'Stranded > > Pakistanis,' trapped in > > internment camps in Bangladesh since 1972." (Zafar > > Bangash, Director > > of Institute of Contemporary Islamic Thought.) > > > For more information: > > > e-mail: haq_for_u@... > > > info@... > > > crescent@... > > > crescent.uk@... > > > Visit web sites: > > www.statelesspeopleinbangladesh.net > > > www.strandedpakistanis.com > > > www.OBATHelpers.org > > > www.muslimedia.com > > > www.ihrc.org > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor > > > > > > New Pacifica Working Group > > http://www.egroups.com/group/NewPacifica > > 'Save Our Stations!' > > Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > > > NewPacifica-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > > > > > > > > > > > > >Loraine >= = = = = = = = = = = >Read "Internment Camps of Bangladesh," by Loraine Mirza >Published by Crescent International Newspapers, Inc. >300 Steelcase Road West, Unit 8, Markham, Ontario, Canada L3R 2W2 >"The story of a long-suffering people told with compassion and >sensitivity. All who care for justice must read this book. Loraine >Mirza, an American Muslim print and broadcast journalist, has >written this remarkable account of the 'Stranded Pakistanis,' >trapped in internment camps in Bangladesh since 1972." (Zafar >Bangash, Director of Institute of Contemporary Islamic Thought.) >For more information: >e-mail: haq_for_u@xxxxxxxxxxx > info@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > crescent@xxxxxxxxxxxx > crescent.uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx >Visit web sites: www.statelesspeopleinbangladesh.net > www.strandedpakistanis.com > www.OBATHelpers.org > www.muslimedia.com > www.ihrc.org > > > >New Pacifica Working Group >http://www.egroups.com/group/NewPacifica >'Save Our Stations!' >Yahoo! Groups Links > > > > Camilla Cracchiolo Los Angeles, California ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> Everything you need is one click away. 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