Yes it's a fine line, but it's generally considered a positive thing for producers to make premiums from their own work product and contribute those to pledge drives at minimal cost to the station (cost of mailing, duplicating, etc.), because it's a cost-effective alternative to purchasing expensive premiums. p --- In NewPacifica@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, Carolyn Birden <cmcb007@...> wrote: > > Another level of this is the direct advertising of the practitioner's > office and services. Armand DeMele on Positive Mind (WBAI) yesterday > had someone on who spent several minutes exhorting listeners to come > into the office, make an appointment with this wonderful man, > educated all over the world, etc. Very commercial - not about WBAI, > not about the fundraiser, just a steady (2-4 minutes) hawking of his > office and his services. Does this happen on your stations? On > other programs? It's similar to the music shows hawking performances > - lots and lots of advertising of performances, beyond just an > announcement, and CDs as well. It's a fine line. > Carolyn > > >He told me that his supplements are a very small part of his > >business. AFAIK he does not have a sales force devoted to selling his > >supplements! He has a couple of closets, one in each of his offices, > >where you can go buy the stuff. A couple of places like The Vitamin > >Shoppe carry a few of his items. He told me that most of his money is > >made from his books and documentaries. > > > >p > > > >--- In > ><mailto:NewPacifica%40yahoogroups.com>NewPacifica@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, > >"stephan" <sgeras@> wrote: > >> > >> yeah but as a result of my purchase for WBAI, I received quite a > >few follow up phone calls from his salespeople...you're right, not > >technically hawking supplements. > >> ----- Original Message ----- > >> From: Pamela Somers > >> To: <mailto:NewPacifica% 40yahoogroups.com>NewPacifica@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > >> Sent: Wednesday, February 27, 2008 9:49 PM > >> Subject: [NewPacifica] Re: Next project: missing premiums. > >> > >> > >> I said he never offered supplements as premiums. Of course he > >donated > >> many premiums to WBAI over the years, but he donated the same > >types > >> of things other producers donated - his work product in the form > >of > >> books, audio tapes and videos. These raised large amounts of > >money > >> for WBAI. The allegation was that he was selling his supplements > >as > >> premiums but he said that he never did that. > >> > >> p > >> > >> --- In > >><mailto:NewPacifica% 40yahoogroups.com>NewPacifica@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, > >>"stephan" <sgeras@> wrote: > >> > > >> > Ms. Somers, I'm proof that he did offer his stuff as premiums; > >15 > >> or 20 years ago he offered his "documentary" videos of > >alternative > >> cancer cure doctors...I got one and reffered to it 'cause I had a > >> sick friend. > >> > Stephan > >> > ----- Original Message ----- > >> > From: Pamela Somers > >> > To: <mailto:NewPacifica% 40yahoogroups.com>NewPacifica@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > >> > Sent: Tuesday, February 26, 2008 9:56 AM > >> > Subject: [NewPacifica] Re: Next project: missing premiums. > >> > > >> > > >> > I don't think so. I don't remember him ever doing that and I > >> actually > >> > heard out of his own mouth that he never did. He has a great > >> memory > >> > and I don't think he'd lie about something that could be easily > >> > disproved. He does offer some of his products as premiums > >during > >> WNYE > >> > benefits, but never on WBAI. Maybe you heard him on WNYE, where > >> he's > >> > currently on in New York, or maybe he offered a documentary or > >a > >> tape > >> > on WBAI, on which he argued that dried wheatgrass was better > >than > >> > fresh. > >> > > >> > P > >> > > >> > --- In > >><mailto:NewPacifica% 40yahoogroups.com>NewPacifica@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, > >>Kevin White <cuitlacoche1@> > >> > wrote: > >> > > > >> > > Yes he did offer them as premiums. I remember in particular > >his > >> > dehydrated wheat grass. He argued it was better for you than > >> fresh > >> > wheat grass in fact. > >> > > > >> > > K > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > ----- Original Message ---- > >> > > From: Pamela Somers <psomers1@> > >> > > To: <mailto:NewPacifica% 40yahoogroups.com>NewPacifica@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > >> > > Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 10:26:11 PM > >> > > Subject: [NewPacifica] Re: Next project: missing premiums. > >> > > > >> > > Fine. But he never mentioned that he sold a brand of > >> supplements on > >> > > the air (as Kevin claims), nor did he offer supplements as > >> > premiums. > >> > > As for urging people to take supplements, what else is a > >> > responsible > >> > > health professional to do? Of course it's beneficial to take > > > > > supplements (if you can afford them). > >> > > > >> > > P. > >> > > > >> > > --- In NewPacifica@ yahoogroups. com, "Frank LeFever" > >> > <fflefever@ ..> > >> > > wrote: > >> > > > > >> > > > True. He was canned for NOT sticking to just hawking > >> supplements. > >> > > > > >> > > > I say "hawking supplements" in the sense of urging people > >to > >> take > >> > > > them, even though he did not tell them explicitly to buy > >his > >> > brand. > >> > > > However, if they visited his website (I think he gave its > >URL > >> from > >> > > > time to time) they couldn't help but notice that they were > >> > available > >> > > > through him. And, of course, the name recognition didn't > >hurt > >> when > >> > > > they happened to see his brand displayed at health food > >> stores. > >> > > > > >> > > > I agree with him on some of what he urged people to take, > >> > bytheway. > >> > > > > >> > > > As for his selling things to cure AIDS--absurd! If he sold > >> > > something > >> > > > to cure a disease he claimed did not exist, he would lose > >> > > credibility. > >> > > > > >> > > > --Frank LeFever > >> > > > > >> > > > > >> > > > ============ ========= ========= ========= ========= ====== > >> > > > --- In NewPacifica@ yahoogroups. com, "Pamela Somers" > >> <psomers1@> > >> > > wrote: > >> > > > > > >> > > > > Gary Null never sold supplements on the air. > >> > > > > > >> > > > > P. > >> > > > > > >> > > > > --- In NewPacifica@ yahoogroups. com, Kevin White > >> > <cuitlacoche1@ > > >> > > > > wrote: > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > Gary Null, who for (I think) decades, sold "health" > >> > suppliments > >> > > > > that "cured cancer" and "AIDS" got fired for political > >> reasons > >> > at > >> > > > > WBAI, and was replaced by Bernard White's personal doctor > >> who > >> > > > > continues to sell snake oil to the hopelessly ill. > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > Our own Janice Blue has in the past sold expensive > >> cooking > >> > > classes > >> > > > > on air, but since she received criticism, now only does > >it > >> on > >> > her > >> > > > > personal web site. This has been determined as "fine." > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > Gary Null's show was on five hours a week, week days > >from > >> > Noon > >> > > to 1 > >> > > > > PM. He was eventually determined by management to be a > >> member > >> > of > >> > > > > the "white" race (and therefore a "racist") so he lost > >his > >> show > >> > > for > >> > > > > someone better suited racially to sell snake oil on a > >> Pacifica > >> > > > > station. > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > K > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > >> > > > > > From: Melinda Iley-Dohn <Iley_dohn@> > >> > > > > > To: NewPacifica@ yahoogroups. com > >> > > > > > Sent: Monday, February 25, 2008 11:26:52 AM > >> > > > > > Subject: Re: [NewPacifica] Re: Next project: missing > >> premiums. > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > Kevin, > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > This idea is so important that it is how the Mission > >> > Statement > >> > > > > begins. Check out letter A here.....http: //www.pacifica. > >> > > org/about/ > >> > > > > mission.html > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > The Foundation was set up to prevent special interests > >> from > >> > the > >> > > > > inside and out. > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > If these two men can be proven to be taking advantage > >of > >> > their > >> > > > > positions with a Pacifica station they should be fired > >> and/or > >> > > taken > >> > > > > off the air. Period. > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > We can not allow ourselves to be bought and sold. > >> > > > > > Profiteers need not apply. No exceptions. > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > Melinda > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > Kevin White <cuitlacoche1@ yahoo.com> wrote: > >> > > > > > Hi Frank, > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > In Houston no one makes money off of their radio shows. > >> When > >> > > > > programmers supply premiums they are gifts to the > >station. > >> We > >> > > never > >> > > > > sell crap to the station, it's given freely. > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > I think this should be the normal way. I understand, > >> there > >> > are > >> > > > > rumors anyway, that you can make a good buck off of a > >WBAI > >> > radio > >> > > show. > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > If this is true, it's a bit of a abomination and should > >> be > >> > > stopped. > >> > > > > I'm most particularly offended by the Gary Null style of > >> making > >> > > money > >> > > > > off the station. He, and Bernard's doctor friend who took > >> over, > > > > > > > should have been removed years ago for giving cancer > >> patience > >> > > false > >> > > > > hope and hawking snake oil on a Pacifica station. > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > K > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > >> > > > > > From: Frank LeFever <fflefever@yahoo. com> > >> > > > > > To: NewPacifica@ yahoogroups. com > >> > > > > > Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2008 7:38:17 PM > >> > > > > > Subject: [NewPacifica] Re: Next project: missing > >premiums. > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > I think some do, some do not. > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > --Frank LeFever > >> > > > > > > >> > > > > > ============ ========= ========= ========= ========= > >> > ========= > >> > > === > >> > > > > > --- In NewPacifica@ yahoogroups. com, Kevin White > >> > > > > <cuitlacoche1@ ...> wrote: > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Frank, > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > It's been a urban legend on these lists for years and > >> I'd > >> > > love you > >> > > > > > to clear it up. > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Do WBAI programmers really sell their primiums to the > >> > station? > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > If so, there surely must be a better way than that. > >In > >> > > Houston our > >> > > > > > programmers don't turn their shows into businesses. I > >> > remember > >> > > when > >> > > > > > Janus Blue began hawking rather expensive cooking > >classes > >> > > conducted > >> > > > > in > >> > > > > > her own home on her vegetarian show. > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > I wanted to ride her out on a rail for that. > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > We can't allow mission drift to overlook commercials > >on > >> our > >> > > > > stations. > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Kevin White > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > >> > > > > > > From: Frank LeFever <fflefever@ ..> > >> > > > > > > To: NewPacifica@ yahoogroups. com > >> > > > > > > Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2008 4:04:10 PM > >> > > > > > > Subject: [NewPacifica] Next project: missing premiums. > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Next project: missing premiums. > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > We have a pretty long list of people who were missing > >> > > ballots, and > >> > > > > > > that case is moving along to completion. > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Now, some of us are interested in the Missing > >Premiums > >> > > Scandal. > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > At the next WBAI Finance Committee meeting, I and/or > >> others > >> > > will > >> > > > > > > be trying to ask many questions about premiums: > >choice, > >> > cost, > >> > > net > >> > > > > > > revenue, etc., but especially non-delivery of > >premiums > >> and > >> > > related > >> > > > > > > subjects (such as how the in-house premium management > >> > > position was > >> > > > > > > filled, how the outside premium-mailing contractor > >was > >> > > chosen, > >> > > > > about > >> > > > > > > the terms of the contract, and the current > >PERFORMANCE > >> of > >> > the > >> > > > > > > Ayo-contractor "arrangement" . > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Please contact me with details of your "missing > >> premium" > >> > > > > experience. > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > Important details: > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > (1) When was the premium first requested: Date? (at > >> least > >> > > > > > > approximately) , Time? (during what program, if you > >> pledged > >> > > by > >> > > > > phone). > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > (2) When did you make the donation? (if you said you > >> gave > >> > > credit > >> > > > > > > card info or used PayPal online, we'll take it > >as "same > >> > time > >> > > as > >> > > > > > > request", but if you paid later, what was date of > >> payment?) > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > (3) What was the name or description of the premium? > >> > Credited > >> > > to > >> > > > > > > which producer/program? > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > If you finally did get a premium, but after a long > >> delay, > >> > we'd > >> > > > > > > like to know those details also. > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > If you got a premium within a reasonable time, we'd > >> like to > >> > > know > >> > > > > > > details of THAT transaction: date & time of request, > >> date > >> > of > >> > > > > payment, > >> > > > > > > name or description of premium; credited to which > >> > > > > producer/program? > >> > > > > > > > >> > > > > > > --Frank LeFever > >> > > > > > > (WBAI Listener & plaintiff) > >> > > > > > ============ ========= ========= ========= ========= > > > ====== > >> > > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > > > >> > __________________________________________________________ > >> > ______________ > >> > > Never miss a thing. Make Yahoo your home page. > >> > > <http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs>http://www.yahoo.com/r/hs > >> > > > >> > > >> > > > > >