The Crooks and Liars blog has a bit on Nader's "Meet the Press" appearance that I find myself very much agreeing with -- despite agreeing with many of Nader's points, it's the last minute appearance in this race after 8 years of doing, well, not much to build a third party movement that annoys: http://www.crooksandliars.com/2008/02/24/mtp-nader-throws-his-hat-in-the-ring/ It?s official: RUSSERT: Will you run for president as an Independent in 2008? NADER: Let me put it in context, to make it a little more palatable to people who have closed minds. 24% of the American people are satisfied with the state of the country, according to Gallup. That?s about the lowest ranking ever. 61% think both major parties are failing. And according to Frank Luntz?s poll, the Republican, 80% will consider voting for an independent this year. Now you take that framework, of people feeling locked out, shut out, marginalized, disrespected and you go from Iraq to Palestine to Israel. From Enron to Wall Street. From Katrina to the bungling of the Bush administration to the complicity of the Democrats in not stopping him on the war, stopping him on the tax cuts, getting a decent energy bill through and you have to ask yourself, as a citizen, should we elaborate the issues that the two are not talking about? And the?all the candidates, McCain, Obama and Clinton, are against single-payer health insurance. Full Medicare for all. I?m for it. As well as millions of Americans and 59% of physicians in a forthcoming poll this April. People don?t like Pentagon waste, the bloated military budget, all of the reports in the press and the GAO reports. A wasteful defense is a weak defense. It takes away taxpayer money that can go to the necessities of the American people. That?s off the table, to Obama and Clinton and McCain. The issue of labor law reform: repealing the notorious Taft-Hartley act, that keeps workers who are now more defenseless than ever against corporate globalization from organizing to defend their interests. Cracking down on corporate crime. The media?the mainstream media?repeatedly indicated how trillions of dollars have been drained and fleeced and looted from millions of workers and investors who don?t have many rights these days. And pensioners. You know, when you see the paralysis of the government, when you see Washington D.C. be corporate-occupied territory?every department agency controlled by overwhelming presence of corporate lobbyists, corporate executives in high government positions?turning the government against its own people, one feels an obligation, Tim, to try to open the doorways, to try to get better ballot access, to respect dissent in America in terms of third parties and independent candidates. To recognize historically the great issues have come in our history?against slavery, women?s rights to vote, and worker and farmer progressives, through little parties that never ran?won any national election. Dissent is the mother of assent. And in that context, I have decided to run for President." CROOKS AND LIARS: It was a simple yes or no question, Ralph. His ?context for closed minds? frankly offends me. I don?t disagree with anything that he said (other than citing Frank Luntz. I mean, come on!), and I am a big believer in having viable third, fourth and even fifth parties to help break the gridlock in Washington DC, I?m even a registered third party voter. That said, I have to ask: Where have you been, Ralph? What have you done in the last eight years (and I?m willing to hold the Democrats responsible for some?but not all?of the ongoing mess, but let?s lay the onus for how messed up everything is squarely on the shoulders of the Bush administration) to help make third parties more viable and allow them a voice on the national stage? How is showing up more than a year into presidential politicking with just a few months left helpful to the validity of third parties? Making independents more meaningful isn?t an eleventh hour appearance on a talking head show. It takes years of sustained effort and commitment, something I haven?t seen Nader do. So the question must be asked: who is this run really for? --Deb --- Wendy Schroell <wendy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > By this note you could just say that anyone who > votes for Nader this > time is CIA. I'm afraid that both concepts are > ridiculous. > > I think by now it is time to give the people credit, > Kevin. No matter > how much needs proving, enough of us are not willing > to throw the > election to the republicans. And even if we are > that stubborn as to > defy logic, we have a bunch of young people coming > in, and they are > EXCITED. This is what we say we want, no? > > wendy > > Kevin White wrote: > > I wouldn't exactly fall of dead from shock if we > were to someday learn > > that Nader is pure CIA. He is not bringing people > together, he steps > > in and divides people at the worst moments in > history. If he does what > > you say, Wendy, and brings ideas to the table, > they look to me a bit > > like Kucinich's which were already on the table > and rejected. > > > > No one but the Republicans can benefit from a > Nader ticket. It is so > > destructive, again, who else could it be but CIA. > > > > There's an old Russian saying, "if there is a > crime, look to see who > > profits." > > > > K > > > > ----- Original Message ---- > > From: Wendy Schroell <wendy@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> > > To: NewPacifica@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > > Sent: Sunday, February 24, 2008 3:47:35 PM > > Subject: Re: [NewPacifica] Complete Asshole Nader > announces new bid > > for White House By HOPE YEN, Associated Press > Writer > > > > I voted for Ralph Nader with great enthusiasm the > first two times that > > he ran for President. By the third time I felt > that the stakes were too > > high and voted for the John Kerry that I didn't > even like. That didn't > > help either, the way it turned out, as we still > got G Dub. I don't have > > a problem with Ralph running because his message > needs to be out there. > > Thing is, the media thinks it more important to > convince people that he > > is a cartoon, and some of our own even want to > call him an asshole or a > > self agrandizer. Neither is true, so we should > help get Nader's > > platform into people's ears up until election day > - then I think we > > should vote for someone who has a chance to beat > McCain. > > > > I voted early in the Texas Primary yesterday. > Funny, but Texas has not > > made a difference in any primary since I've lived > here. The top > > candidates usually don't spend time or any money > at all campaigning > > here, but all of a sudden we are hot shit. Edwards > was on my ballot but > > I did not throw away my vote even though I like > him better than the > > other Democrats. I am not a Democrat, but I voted > for Obama yesterday > > because he might be able to beat McCain. If > Hillary somehow wins the > > nomination I will hold my nose until I turn blue > and vote for Hillary, > > although I am not sure that she has as much of a > chance at beating McCain. > > > > I like Nader best, but the United States can't > afford another Republican > > president, especially now. > > > > wendy > > > > PS: Melinda, I don't know if it's still like this, > but the whole idea > > behind launching Air America was that it was to be > the voice of the > > Democratic Party. I think that is perfectly fine > too, but understand > > that of course they're going to attack Nader. > > > > Melinda Iley-Dohn wrote: > > > I share your disdain for this. I think that he > is a self centered jerk > > > that is more interested in > > > self granizment than serving the people. Randi > Rhodes got into it with > > > him on the first day that Air America went on > the air April of 2004, > > > it's in the HBO movie "Left Side of The Dial". > > > She told him that he had already polarized the > voters and would > > > possibly do it again and asked him to step down. > He got angry and > > > yelled at her and then slammed the phone down. > > > She got the same response when she reminded > Oliver North that he was a > > > convicted felon. > > > She got in trouble at the Republican Convention > because she asked Bob > > > Barr how many wives he had and how he could say > he was for "family > > > values" with his history. I just LOVED it. > > > > > > Melinda > > > > > > */Kevin White <cuitlacoche1@ yahoo.com > > <mailto:cuitlacoche1%40yahoo.com>>/* wrote: > > > > > > > > > Remember it's was third party candidate John > Anderson who got > > > Ronald Reagan elected. His 10% of the vote > became Reagan's > > > "landslide." What a fucking asshole. He has to > be CIA. > > > > > > Nader announces new bid for White House > > > > > > By HOPE YEN, Associated Press Writer 5 minutes > ago > > > Ralph Nader said Sunday he will run for > president as a third-party > > > candidate, criticizing the top White House > contenders as too close > > > to big business and pledging to repeat a bid > that will "shift the > > > power from the few to the many." > > > Nader, 73, said most people are disenchanted > with the Democratic > > > and Republican parties due to a prolonged Iraq > war and a shaky > > > economy. The consumer advocate also blamed tax > and other > > > corporate-friendly policies under the Bush > administration that he > > > said have left many lower- and middle-class > people in debt. > > > "You take that framework of people feeling > locked out, shut out, > > > marginalized and disrespected, " he said. "You > go from Iraq, to > > > Palestine to Israel, from Enron to Wall Street, > from Katrina to > > > the bumbling of the Bush administration, to the > complicity of the > > > Democrats in not stopping him on the war, > stopping him on the tax > > > cuts." > > > "In that context, I have decided to run for > president," Nader told > > > NBC's "Meet the Press." > > > Nader also criticized Republican candidate John > McCain and > > > Democrats Barack Obama and Hillary Rodham > Clinton for failing to > > > support full Medicare for all or cracking down > on Pentagon waste > > > and a "bloated military budget. He blamed that > on corporate > > > lobbyists and special interests, which he said > dominate > > > Washington, D.C., and pledged in his third-party > campaign to > > > accept donations only from individuals. > > > "The issue is do they have the moral courage, do > they have the > > > fortitude to stand up to corporate powers and > get things done for > > > the American people," Nader said. "We have to > shift the power from > > > the few to the many." > > > Nader also ran as a third-party candidate in > 2000 and 2004, and > > > many Democrats still accuse him of costing Al > Gore the 2000 election. > > > Obama, responding Saturday to Nader's earlier > criticisms that he > > > lacked "substance," praised Nader as a "heroic > figure." > === message truncated ===