Hi Melinda, I've told folks I'm a Humanist as I define: that a human is responsible for their own activity. Correctly, I could also say - I am an agnostic - don't know, don't feel I need to know - life is precious and such a gift - a brain that can be developed .... Religion in general stops brain growth by saying - no need to look for answers - here they are - no need to imagine. That's about all the thought I want to say about that, here. I find Jesus very interesting and agree with you - that's what I heard Jesus to be, and my POV - amazing - so - yeah, looking at the time, he was suppose to have lived and the activity then and since - sure has given me much to wonder, suppose and imagine, and frankly - I bless the sun and the moon and the stars and the expanding universe - That I got that, the ability to imagine and wonder, what if - we actually started to really develop the human brain.... Eileen J. Goodman --- Melinda Iley-Dohn <Iley_dohn@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: > Forgive me if I am adding to much to this topic.It > is one that is dear to me but I don't want to annoy > others. > > I can't fathom this "Who would Jesus bomb" > mentality considering that he was called the "Prince > of Peace" in the Bible text. How can we not shudder > when people carrying Bibles > protest Matthew Sheppard's funeral all the while > knowing that Jesus himself went against > the conventional beliefs of his day by ministering > to lepers? > > The reason I count myself as a Christian is that > he was a man who loved even those who killed him and > spoke of turning the other cheek rather than hate > others. In his day, people > kept trying to push him to be political but he > shunned it saying that it was not his mission. > He spoke of caring for children, the poor, sick, > elderly and unfortunate. He didn't preach this > "if you are doing the right thing you will be > rich" theology. Even Nazis have attempted to align > themselves as allegedly being a part of his belief > as they killed Jews. Ironic given that Jesus was > born Jewish, isn't it? I don't think that he would > support these people who claim to be protecting > Israel by killing Palestinians though. That's my > thought not in the scriptures. > > This is why I am a liberal. Sorry for getting long > winded. I hope people on this list do not > consider this to be too pontificating. I feel if > anything my beliefs show me that there is a reason > that the meek shall inherit the earth. The braggarts > generally annoy the others so much that they can't > hold much ground. There is also that matter of pride > going before the fall that keeps us humble. > > Regards, > Melinda > > Richard <rsierra12@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: > On the presumption no one on this list > has studied Pope Benedict?s recently published > ?Jesus of Nazareth?. I must insist all do so. The > Pope and the Catholic Church is not the issue here. > What?s important is the book puts on display the > very human life of The Man (of the Christians) and > in doing so he exposes from the shadows the > anti-imperial, political Man that Jesus was. > Moreover, in the left tradition he puts The Man > within the present time frame. If I were Bush I?d be > shaking in my boots. > > Every religious, agnostic, and athiest on this > board who closely reads the writing will be > impressed with it basic contents. That?s a promise. > Although there are occasions when he frames from the > ?We?, the Church, perspective, who cares? I don?t > and any reseacher worth his salt shouldn?t either. > > Read it, it?ll spin you around. /R > > > --------------------------------- > > From: NewPacifica@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > [mailto:NewPacifica@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx] On Behalf Of > Melinda Iley-Dohn > Sent: Thursday, February 07, 2008 9:13 AM > To: NewPacifica@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > Subject: Re: [NewPacifica] Re: Re: Fred's Nonsense > is [anti-] Wisdom > > > Terry, > > > > There is a grain of truth to what you say but > there is a lot to be said for faith if it's not > > a front for political gain. We Christians > believe that a person can only serve one master. > > and that love of money is the root of all evil. > > > > Faith was defined to me as a child as going to > the edge of the darkness (obstensibly our live of > vision or present) and continuing to walk. At times, > like a heavy recession, being unemloyed, being ill > et al, all may appear to be abysmal and hopeless. > There is a lot to > > said for having faith that we will persevere if > we do the right thing. Many a person has stood > opptimisitic when they had no right to be. It was > this sense of faith in our God that got them > through. Even Shakespeare said that there was more > that existed on heaven and earth than > > in science and your philosophy. People live when > medicine can't explain why from illness and other > things some of us would call miracles. I believe > that with faith we can do all things and that my > Lord moves in mysterious ways. > > > > Granted my faith is not one shared by many at > Pacifica. This is no cause of convern > > for me. I always have felt that people must live > according to their own guildines. Sadly, > > of late, it is often persons who claim to share > my Christian faith that treat the poor > > badly and use greed as the star that guides > them. I have a HUGE problem because > > I am told to not judge my fellow humans because > I am not without sin but part of that > > impediment is my human nature. I want us all to > strive to be there for others and to > > live the values I hold dear and it causes me a > lot of grief. Sometimes it's hard to be > > strong in faith alone. It's amusing when you > think about the fact that Christians in the > > far right annoy me far more than atheists and > persons of other faiths do. I guess it's a > > matter of I hate the fact that generally they > assume because I have liberal political beliefs > > that I am not a Christian. It's my Christianity > that MAKES me a liberal. > > > > Melinda > > > > Melinda > > Terry Goodman <tgoodman@xxxxxxxxxx> wrote: > > On 6 Feb 2008, Kevin White wrote: > > >People would be a lot happier, less neurotic, and > kill a lot > >less people if everyone was an atheist. > > Atheists would be a lot happier if everyone was an > atheist, but many > religionists find great joy in their faiths. If in > applying the > ethical principle of the greatest good to the > greastest number we > assign happiness the status of greatest good, those > who are pleased > and comforted by untuths are thereby given, I think, > an unfair > advantage in this calculation. > > As to less neurotic, you may be right. Many > religions promote the > suppression or diversion of sensual instincts with > theories of guilt > that can eventually manifest as neurosis. This is by > no means a > characteristic of all religions, however; and the > same sort of > sublimation can be employed by, for example, > political doctrine, with > equivalent side-effects. > > As to killing a lot less people, I'm not so sure. > Religion is > frequently called upon to justify warfare and > murder, but warfare and > murder also commonly occur without religion, and > most religions > promote an ethical standard that holds killing to be > wrong. It's > scary to picture the finger poised above the red > button as belonging > to a dominionist thinking that global destruction is > the will of God, > but it is also scary to picture that finger as > belonging to an atheist > without a belief in divine retribution or some > substituting humanist > ethic who has coldly determined that pressing the > button will totally > destroy a perceived enemy while allowing "our side" > to survive with > only minor damage. > > >God is for those who are not strong enough to live > in a universe > >without meaning. > > Maybe for some, but I think this explanation misses > the mark. Gods > and Goddesses are for those who find it necessary, > useful, or just > convenient to personify or humanize nature or the > divine. As with the > Gaia Hypothesis, classifying all or a portion of > reality as a > semi-organic entity, with or without what we might > call consciousness, > creates a shift in perception that allows aspects of > reality to be > recognized and incorporated into one's world view > that otherwise would > escape notice. If a culture has no concept of > disease but prohibits > disease-spreading behaviors because they have been > observed to provoke > the wrath of God, then its religious beliefs and > customs have served a > useful survival function. A belief in mana or in > germs or in > recessive genes can usefully substitute for parts of > a belief in > deity, but deity-based religious beliefs can still > remain utilitarian > for other purposes in their consistent explanation > of poorly > understood natural laws. > > Personifying the divine does not necessarily give > the universe > meaning. The recognition that "God works in > mysterious ways" is an > admission that His purpose and meaning may be > totally beyond human > comprehension, which is equivalent to > meaninglessness from the human > perspective. > > If a person chooses to give a name to their > automobile, shower it with > attention and affection, and speak of it as a pet, > they thereby > establish a certain unique relationship with their > car; but I wouldn't > think them "less strong" for making this choice, nor > would I assume > that anything about "meaning" has been thereby > created. It is simply > a personal choice - an affectation that they are > comfortable with and > find handy or useful in ordering the automotive > aspects of their life. > If experience shows that Charlotte the Chevy is > grumpy on cold > mornings and insists that her engine be idled for > five minutes while > she wakes up and wipes the sleep off of her > windshield or she will > throw a tantrum and stall in the driveway, Harriet's > owner would be > wise to pay attention to her complaints. > > God can be stubborn like that, too. > > --Terry Goodman > > > > > > > > > > > > > > --------------------------------- > Be a better friend, newshound, and know-it-all with > Yahoo! Mobile. Try it now. ____________________________________________________________________________________ Looking for last minute shopping deals? Find them fast with Yahoo! Search. http://tools.search.yahoo.com/newsearch/category.php?category=shopping