On this I agree: the thread topic was "code of personal conduct", not "free speech". Yes, if one goes beyond a certain limit he/she loses a voice. That's the way it's supposed to be in any decent community which by assumption we are. Being "nice" doesn't necessarily mean being a whimp though one unduly stirring up trouble, a "bad guy", will tell you otherwise. I like a freewheeling NP....just don't go too far or by the moderators right you may go overboard....Justly or not. I'm not judging any particular posters, that's what the moderator is (-n't) paid for. For present purposes I support this board-system, though, with a bit o' luck I may be able to alter some things therein. <smile> And, yes, on the basis of mutuality fairly criticizing authority is a right. Someone sez, "I'm a revolutionary." So BE it! Contribute to overthrowing the national powers (right) that be, not the lists' authority (left); or, if preferred, find another ship to sail. Try a frigate or the good ship Lollypop or something. There're many ships plying the great sea and not a few below the surface. _ I must say my evaluation of the Freepacifica and the later, then new, New Pacifica lists are more mixed than James. Faulty memory on my part maybe. /R -----Original Message----- From: NewPacifica@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx [mailto:NewPacifica@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx]On Behalf Of James Ross Sent: Saturday, December 31, 2005 7:08 AM To: NewPacifica@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx Subject: [NewPacifica] Re: more personal attacks Hi I used to love this list. When it started it was very educational. The archives are a treasure. Then about 3 years ago it lost something - there were more attacks, off-topic posts, pointless threads, etc. Since then I don't come here very often. A lot of the interesting people from past years don't come here very often either. I strongly believe the moderator has the right and duty to remove people who detract from the list. It's like a party - guests who insult everyone and start fights have to go (unless that is the purpose of the party). It is not a free speech issue, in my mind - Fred has plenty of opportunity to express himself. If he wants, he can start his own yahoo group. Jamie (who has recently been called a racist, a cop, and a friend of agents by Fred on the Rockland WBAI list) --- In NewPacifica@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, "L. Mirza" <haq4u@xxxx> wrote: > > Yes, true, but I still uphold fred's right to freely > express his stupidity as his assertions are always > easy to challenge and counter. > > However, as the moderator of this list, I also > understand your right to make the decisions about this > list. NewPacifica is afterall, not an offical Pacifica > e-list but started by private individuals, such as > yourself, and therefore the calls are yours to make. I > respect that and accept that too. Hard to balance free > speech of the subscribers, and the right of those who > have taken the initiative to start and maintain these > lists to determine the rules. Others who disagree with > the way a list is run are free to leave and even start > a list of their own. > > --- Pamela Somers <psomers@xxxx> wrote: > > > Loraine, > > > > You are right in your agreement that many of Fred's > > posts contain -- > > and I couldn't have said it any better -- "pure > > personal attacks" and > > "outright slander". And that will not be tolerated > > here in the name of > > free speech. > > > > Pamela > > > > L. Mirza wrote: > > > > >Well fred, now it's time for me to stand up for > > your > > >right to express your nonesence in the name of free > > >speech on this list or anywhere else in the world. > > >This despite my agreement that many of your posts > > are > > >pure personal attacks, blantantly racist and often > > >vulgar and outright slander. > > > > > >--- Pamela Somers <psomers@xxxx> wrote: > > > > > > > > >--------------------------------- > > > Fred, > > > > > >I'm suspending your posting privileges for now, > > until > > >I can decidewhether or not to ban you from the > > list, > > >for your racist posts and personal attacks such as > > the > > >one below. > > > > > >Pamela > > > > > >siddharta2@xxxx: In a message > > dated > > >12/17/2005 10:35:03 A.M. Eastern StandardTime, > > >cmcb007@xxxx writes: > > > This is the kind of personal attack that > > should > > >not be allowedon this or any list that attempts to > > >promote dialogue. That thespeaker is racist we > > know: > > >this is the same person who called SteveBrown a > > >"F*%#ing Zionist pig," so we know that Fred is > > >ignorant notonly of Steve's politics (and I suspect > > a > > >lot of other things he claimsto be expert in) but > > also > > >of the fundamentals of civil discourse. He > > iscorrect: > > >he should have been removed for the quantity, not > > to > > >mentionthe quality, of his posts long ago. > > > > > > > > > Carolyn Birden > > > > > > Reply: > > > > > > I love Ms Birden because she's so easy to debate > > >with. > > > She's definitely right on 2 things. My opinion > > is > > >that Mr.Brown is a zionist provocateur and, as a > > >proof, I offer that headvocated for the accession > > of > > >Mike Feder, another known zionist to theGM position > > at > > >BAI. Zionists will never be in power at > > >Pacificabecause they are allied with the extreme > > >religious right. Even somewhite people now > > understand > > >that since they are being challenged intheir belief > > >that their own ancestors may have been other > > >thanmonkeys. Mr Brown is a peddler and a > > marketeer, > > >he has the opinionsthat please his audience. But > > his > > >methods of calling African Americans"Blacknats" > > >(understand "Malcolm X is a bad person") had > > >himuncovered. I was told that his internet > > rantings > > >have been collectedand bound for posterity. > > Calling > > >black people racists is a method ofthe Zionists. > > The > > >Zionists masqueraded as socialists in the 50s and > > >60sin order to enlist many Jewish intellectuals but > > >progressively throughthe years they have morphed > > back > > >into the extreme racist andcolonialist ideology > > which > > >they modeled on their observation of > > >Germannationalism, which was contemporary to their > > >movement and aspirations. Zionism is the main > > product > > >of Jewish bourgeois nationalism and itadvocates the > > >conversion of an entire people from a levantine > > >folkorigin to a nation granted an ethnically > > cleansed > > >land and will,in return, spread the joy of their > > >miraculous metamorphosis into a 5000year old white > > >skin European clone. Mr. Brown and hismethodical > > >attacks on black people have the same stamp > > >andcharacteristics of the attacks which were made > > on > > >movements of color inthe 1970s, which we now know > > had > > >the active assistance of Zionist molesposing as > > Jewish > > >leftists. If it smells like a rat.... > > > > > > I also characterized Mr. Brown as a pig and I > > stand > > >by thatimage. At the farm, the pig is the only > > animal > > >which has no naturalfear of humans and will come to > > >you smelling you everywhere. Mr. Brownis very well > > >known for is provocative antics in BAI related > > >meetings,coming right to the face of his targets > > (in > > >one case, less than a footaway) and snapping > > >repetitive flash photography to disorient > > thesubject. > > >He has published unauthorized photos of mine on the > > >internet,although I must admit, some of the photos > > >made me look quite handsomesince he uses very > > >expensive cameras which his vast fortune affords > > him. > > > > > > In summary, I maintain my statement and opinion > > that > > >Mr. Brownis no Charlie Brown. I believe him to be > > a > > >Zionist plant targetingpeople of color as his > > primary > > >mission to remove the most radicalcomponent of this > > >beloved station. To his defense, Mr. Brown is > > notthe > > >only one. The hijackers has a similar goal but > > were > > >moved byanother puppeteer, the liberal democrats. > > As > > >for his performance as afarm animal, no one ever > > >accused me of hating fellow living creatures,since > > I > > >am after all a vegetarian. But when a pig gets > > pesky > > >andsmells in places we do not wish to be, a farmer > > >will tell you that afirm kick in a soft rear side > > is > > >in order. That's what he got andthat's what he > > >deserved. He can still sit on his comfortable > > bacon. > > >But I have to warn others to beware of his soft > > spoken > > >approach. Pigsare known to have very little self > > >respect and to steal your lunch whenyou look away > > from > > >them. > > > > > > As for dialogue Ms Birden, you know I am one of > > your > > >fans andwill always respond to you in kind, if not > > >always kindly. But who saysthat a true debate has > > to > > >be kind. To me, you are just a person,nothing > > more, > > >nothing less. The only thing I detest is your > > >methods. It is also my stance in life to tell > > people > > >what I see in them. What Isee in you, Ms Birden > > >floods me with regrets which I express byexhorting > > you > > >to reform yourself and stop agitating for > > >outsideinterests. Most people I know think of you > > >with compassion. I suggestyou need the expert > > hands > > >of a professional massage therapist, someoneto > > relax > > >this angst you have about people you want to > > destroy > > >for someobscure reasons. Give it a try. > > > > > > Fred N. ------------------------ Yahoo! Groups Sponsor --------------------~--> DonorsChoose.org helps at-risk students succeed. Fund a student project today! http://us.click.yahoo.com/t7dfYD/FpQLAA/E2hLAA/xYTolB/TM --------------------------------------------------------------------~-> New Pacifica Working Group http://www.egroups.com/group/NewPacifica 'Save Our Stations!' Yahoo! 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