My sense is that different groups push around other groups and have since the begging of time, which is why I favor multiculturalism, though I'm not sure Richard and I have the same definition. As soon as I mention being half Polish, people tell me that of course all Poles are Anti-Semitic. Knowing my mother's multi immigrant home town full of miners and lumberjacks who joshed each other about their backgrounds all the time, I suspected that it was something like that in the Old Country. (There were even Arabs in Hurley. The Irish really bugged everyone with their lace curtain airs. And the Finns' accents were hilariously funny. I don't think Blacks had come that far north, though.) But back to the Poles and the Jews. The Poles rescued Jews from Germans in the Middle Ages. Lots of Poles in later years were antisemitic to probably the same degree that moderns are anti-Hispanic, but Grandpa really disliked Germans. And guess what, a Polish general describes early days in his career at an outpost in a village of mostly Jews where the Jews beat up a Lutheran soldier because he'd fallen in love with and converted a Jewish girl. (They later married.) There's a lot of anti-Polanism around nowadays, too. I wouldn't be surprised if medieval caliphs color coded Christians and Jews. It was the old time way. But something that troubles me is the popular wisdom that the exceptionalism of the Jews extends to the fact that no group, other than African Americans, have ever suffered discrimination and genocide. Exceptionalism is dangerous. I worry for the Orthodox kid down the block who probably never interacts with non-Orthodox kids and wondered orally how to tell if someone might attack out of anti-semitism. Exceptionalism, either as glorious victor or as ultimate victim, is dangerous, I think. And I don't want to spend my time worrying about who did what to whom in the Middle Ages when they got a lot of stuff wrong. Avis, who did not mean to write an essay on 4/5/06 5:05 PM, Melinda Smith at melsbasketcase@xxxxxxxxx wrote: > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: Northrup, Robert <Robert.Northrup@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx> > Date: Apr 5, 2006 8:02 PM > Subject: RE: wikipedia is neocon christian? > To: Melinda Smith <melsbasketcase@xxxxxxxxx> > > > What is L. Mirza's proof that wikipedia is run by a neo con Christian > organization? That's silly on the face of it. Why would a neocon > Christian group have an open encyclopedia for anyone to contribute to > or modify it? Why would any group trying to put out propaganda allow > other users to change the propaganda? > > You could show her some other sources that would support wikipedia, > but she would just condemn any sources that disagree with her claims. > Pblthft. > > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Melinda Smith [mailto:melsbasketcase@xxxxxxxxx] > Sent: Wednesday, April 05, 2006 7:33 PM > To: Northrup, Robert > Subject: wikipedia is neocon christian? > > ---------- Forwarded message ---------- > From: L. Mirza <haq4u@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> > Date: Apr 5, 2006 1:42 PM > Subject: Re: [NewPacifica] Re: FW: Robert Fisk on the Holocaust > To: NewPacifica@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > > > Those sources are all from European orientalists and are all > completely fiction. Please note the source for all are the same. > wikipedia. That site is run by a neo con Chrisian missionary > organization. The same group tried to published a fraudulent version > of the Quran and got in trouble for it after numerous complaints and > had to remove that site. > > > --- Melinda Smith <melsbasketcase@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: > >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_badge >> 717 <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/717> >> Caliph<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caliph> Omar II >> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omar_II> orders both Jews and >> Christians<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian>to >> wear a >> distinguishing mark. >> 807 <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/807> >> Persia<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persian_Empire> >> Abbassid <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abbassid> >> Caliph Harun >> > al-Rashid<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harun_al-Rashid>orders > >> Jews to >> wear yellow belt, blue for Christians. >> 853 <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/853> Caliph >> > Al-Mutavallil<http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Al-Mutavallil&action=e > dit>of >> Persia <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persian_Empire> > >> issues a yellow badge >> edict. >> 1005 <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1005> >> Fatimid<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatimid>Caliph >> Al-Hakim >> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Hakim_bi-Amr_Allah> >> orders Jews of >> Egypt <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egypt> and the Land of >> > Israel<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_of_Israel>to > >> wear bells on >> their garments and "golden >> calf <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_calf>" > >> (made of wood) around the >> neck. In 1301 <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1301>, > >> they were obliged to wear >> yellow turbans >> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turban>. > >> On 4/4/06, L. Mirza <haq4u@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>> >>> Just which Caliph are you speaking about, pam? >> Since >>> you are our professional xenophobic on this list >> you >>> should at least provide specific facts, which >> should >>> begin with sharing the name of this Caliph, or in proper Arabic, >>> Khalifa. And while you're at it, >> can >>> you also name what the alleged penalty was? >>> >>> >>> --- Kevin White <cuitlacoche1@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>> >>>> Pam, >>>> >>>> Wow, has it been three years already? >>>> >>>> Before you turn anti-Zionism into Arab >> bashing, >>>> maybe you should look closer at history. The >> first >>>> public act of Mohammed was to bring peace to the Jews and Arabs at >>>> Medina. >>>> >>>> Mohammed was a peacemaker. A term that cannot >> be >>>> applied to you and I. >>>> >>>> Kevin White >>>> >>>> pmmcooke <pmmcooke@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>>> Fisk is such an anti-semite that he uses the holocaust in order >>>> to propogate the anti-semitic fiction >> of >>>> Deir Yassin >>>> (of course Fisk will never admit to, much less >> point >>>> out, the >>>> Arab blockade in that area which began in late >> 1947. >>>> Nor will >>>> Fisk mention the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem's >> urging >>>> Arab attacks >>>> against Jews. >>>> >>>> If Fisk wants to use history to bash the Jews, >> he >>>> ought to try revising the fact that, in the >> 600's >>>> AD, a >>>> Muslim Caliph first set the fashion trend which would pass thru >>>> several stages - eventually resulting in >> Hitler's >>>> yellow >>>> stars - by forcing the Jews in Palestine to wear pieces of >>>> yellow cloth. That Caliph also levied the >> first of >>>> sooo >>>> many centuries of penalties against the Jews - censures which >>>> Hitler refined into outright extermination. >>>> >>>> If history has taught us anything, it is that history itself >>>> demands the necessity of the state of Israel. >>>> >>>> --- In NewPacifica@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, Avis >> Worthington >>>> <avisworth@...> >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ---------- >>>>> From: Henry Clarence <hclarence2@...> >>>>> Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 16:44:32 -0800 >>>>> To: Recipient List Suppressed:; >>>>> Subject: Robert Fisk on the Holocaust >>>>> >>>>> Thought you might find this interesting >>>>> >>>> >>> >> > http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article12601.htm >>>>> -- >>>>> Henry Clarence >>>>> Berkeley Gray Panthers >>>>> Berkeley, CA >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> New Pacifica Working Group >>>> http://www.egroups.com/group/NewPacifica >>>> 'Save Our Stations!' >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> SPONSORED LINKS >>>> Issues Pacifica Culture >> Participant >>>> Forging >>>> >>>> --------------------------------- >>> >>>> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS >>>> >>>> >>>> Visit your group "NewPacifica" on the web. >>>> >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send an >> email >>>> to: >>>> NewPacifica-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>> >>>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of >>>> Service. >>>> >>>> >>>> --------------------------------- >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> --------------------------------- >>>> Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls >> for >>>> ridiculously low rates. >>>> >>>> --------------------------------- >>>> Blab-away for as little as 1¢/min. Make >> PC-to-Phone >>>> Calls using Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. >>> >>> >>> Loraine >>> = = = = = = = = = = = >>> Read "Internment Camps of Bangladesh," by Loraine >> Mirza >>> Published by Crescent International Newspapers, >> Inc. >>> 300 Steelcase Road West, Unit 8, Markham, Ontario, >> Canada L3R 2W2 >>> "The story of a long-suffering people told with >> compassion and >>> sensitivity. All who care for justice must read >> this book. Loraine Mirza, an >>> American Muslim print and broadcast journalist, >> has written this remarkable >>> account of the 'Stranded Pakistanis,' trapped in >> internment camps in >>> Bangladesh since 1972." (Zafar Bangash, Director >> of Institute of >>> Contemporary Islamic Thought.) >>> For more information: >>> e-mail: haq_for_u@xxxxxxxxxxx >>> info@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx >>> crescent@xxxxxxxxxxxx >>> crescent.uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx >>> Visit web sites: >> www.statelesspeopleinbangladesh.net >>> www.strandedpakistanis.com >>> www.OBATHelpers.org >> <http://www.obathelpers.org/> > >>> www.muslimedia.com >>> www.ihrc.org >>> >>> >>> >>> New Pacifica Working Group >>> http://www.egroups.com/group/NewPacifica >>> 'Save Our Stations!' >>> >>> >>> >>> SPONSORED LINKS >>> >> > Issues<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Issues&w1=Issues&w2=Pacifica&w3=Cul > ture&w4=Participant&w5=Forging&c=5&s=69&.sig=2fHrxWTYSUu-Z2KaXhkqOw> >>> >> > Pacifica<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Pacifica&w1=Issues&w2=Pacifica&w3 > =Culture&w4=Participant&w5=Forging&c=5&s=69&.sig=9I7zHn9EhWcQYDqRPrkk7Q> >>> >> > Culture<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Culture&w1=Issues&w2=Pacifica&w3=C > ulture&w4=Participant&w5=Forging&c=5&s=69&.sig=HJDBjRNPb6G91gF2jbutTQ> >>> >> > Participant<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Participant&w1=Issues&w2=Pacif > ica&w3=Culture&w4=Participant&w5=Forging&c=5&s=69&.sig=885fZlI-L_0WX0gJl4lcdw> >>> >> > Forging<http://groups.yahoo.com/gads?t=ms&k=Forging&w1=Issues&w2=Pacifica&w3=C > ulture&w4=Participant&w5=Forging&c=5&s=69&.sig=PG0By_m-L7JJPR0NrQL3OA> > >>> ------------------------------ >>> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS >>> >>> >>> - Visit your group >> > "NewPacifica<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NewPacifica>" > >>> on the web. >>> >>> - To unsubscribe from this group, send an >> email to: >>> >> > NewPacifica-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx<NewPacifica-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx > m?subject=Unsubscribe> >>> >>> - Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the >> Yahoo! Terms of >>> Service <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>. >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >> >> >> >> -- > >> Melinda Smith =^..^= >> http://angelfire.com/zine/melsbasketcase >> > > > Loraine > = = = = = = = = = = = > Read "Internment Camps of Bangladesh," by Loraine Mirza Published by > Crescent International Newspapers, Inc. > 300 Steelcase Road West, Unit 8, Markham, Ontario, Canada L3R 2W2 "The > story of a long-suffering people told with compassion and sensitivity. > All who care for justice must read this book. Loraine Mirza, an > American Muslim print and broadcast journalist, has written this > remarkable account of the 'Stranded Pakistanis,' trapped in internment > camps in Bangladesh since 1972." (Zafar Bangash, Director of Institute > of Contemporary Islamic Thought.) For more information: > e-mail: haq_for_u@xxxxxxxxxxx > info@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx > crescent@xxxxxxxxxxxx > crescent.uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx > Visit web sites: www.statelesspeopleinbangladesh.net > www.strandedpakistanis.com > www.OBATHelpers.org > www.muslimedia.com > www.ihrc.org > > > > --- Melinda Smith <melsbasketcase@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: > >> http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Yellow_badge >> 717 <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/717> >> Caliph<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Caliph> Omar II >> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Omar_II> orders both Jews and >> Christians<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Christian>to >> wear a >> distinguishing mark. >> 807 <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/807> >> Persia<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persian_Empire> >> Abbassid <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Abbassid> >> Caliph Harun >> > al-Rashid<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Harun_al-Rashid>orders > >> Jews to >> wear yellow belt, blue for Christians. >> 853 <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/853> Caliph >> > Al-Mutavallil<http://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Al-Mutavallil&action=e > dit>of >> Persia <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Persian_Empire> > >> issues a yellow badge >> edict. >> 1005 <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1005> >> Fatimid<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatimid>Caliph >> Al-Hakim >> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Al-Hakim_bi-Amr_Allah> >> orders Jews of >> Egypt <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Egypt> and the Land of >> > Israel<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Land_of_Israel>to > >> wear bells on >> their garments and "golden >> calf <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Golden_calf>" > >> (made of wood) around the >> neck. In 1301 <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/1301>, > >> they were obliged to wear >> yellow turbans >> <http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Turban>. > >> On 4/4/06, L. Mirza <haq4u@xxxxxxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>> >>> Just which Caliph are you speaking about, pam? >> Since >>> you are our professional xenophobic on this list >> you >>> should at least provide specific facts, which >> should >>> begin with sharing the name of this Caliph, or in proper Arabic, >>> Khalifa. And while you're at it, >> can >>> you also name what the alleged penalty was? >>> >>> >>> --- Kevin White <cuitlacoche1@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>> >>>> Pam, >>>> >>>> Wow, has it been three years already? >>>> >>>> Before you turn anti-Zionism into Arab >> bashing, >>>> maybe you should look closer at history. The >> first >>>> public act of Mohammed was to bring peace to the Jews and Arabs at >>>> Medina. >>>> >>>> Mohammed was a peacemaker. A term that cannot >> be >>>> applied to you and I. >>>> >>>> Kevin White >>>> >>>> pmmcooke <pmmcooke@xxxxxxxxx> wrote: >>>> Fisk is such an anti-semite that he uses the holocaust in order >>>> to propogate the anti-semitic fiction >> of >>>> Deir Yassin >>>> (of course Fisk will never admit to, much less >> point >>>> out, the >>>> Arab blockade in that area which began in late >> 1947. >>>> Nor will >>>> Fisk mention the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem's >> urging >>>> Arab attacks >>>> against Jews. >>>> >>>> If Fisk wants to use history to bash the Jews, >> he >>>> ought to try revising the fact that, in the >> 600's >>>> AD, a >>>> Muslim Caliph first set the fashion trend which would pass thru >>>> several stages - eventually resulting in >> Hitler's >>>> yellow >>>> stars - by forcing the Jews in Palestine to wear pieces of >>>> yellow cloth. That Caliph also levied the >> first of >>>> sooo >>>> many centuries of penalties against the Jews - censures which >>>> Hitler refined into outright extermination. >>>> >>>> If history has taught us anything, it is that history itself >>>> demands the necessity of the state of Israel. >>>> >>>> --- In NewPacifica@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx, Avis >> Worthington >>>> <avisworth@...> >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> >>>>> ---------- >>>>> From: Henry Clarence <hclarence2@...> >>>>> Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2006 16:44:32 -0800 >>>>> To: Recipient List Suppressed:; >>>>> Subject: Robert Fisk on the Holocaust >>>>> >>>>> Thought you might find this interesting >>>>> >>>> >>> >> > http://www.informationclearinghouse.info/article12601.htm >>>>> -- >>>>> Henry Clarence >>>>> Berkeley Gray Panthers >>>>> Berkeley, CA >>>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> New Pacifica Working Group >>>> http://www.egroups.com/group/NewPacifica >>>> 'Save Our Stations!' >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> SPONSORED LINKS >>>> Issues Pacifica Culture >> Participant >>>> Forging >>>> >>>> --------------------------------- >>> >>>> YAHOO! GROUPS LINKS >>>> >>>> >>>> Visit your group "NewPacifica" on the web. >>>> >>>> To unsubscribe from this group, send an >> email >>>> to: >>>> NewPacifica-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx >>>> >>>> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to the Yahoo! Terms of >>>> Service. >>>> >>>> >>>> --------------------------------- >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> >>>> --------------------------------- >>>> Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. PC-to-Phone calls >> for >>>> ridiculously low rates. >>>> >>>> --------------------------------- >>>> Blab-away for as little as 1¢/min. Make >> PC-to-Phone >>>> Calls using Yahoo! Messenger with Voice. >>> >>> >>> Loraine >>> = = = = = = = = = = = >>> Read "Internment Camps of Bangladesh," by Loraine >> Mirza >>> Published by Crescent International Newspapers, >> Inc. >>> 300 Steelcase Road West, Unit 8, Markham, Ontario, >> Canada L3R 2W2 >>> "The story of a long-suffering people told with >> compassion and >>> sensitivity. All who care for justice must read >> this book. Loraine Mirza, an >>> American Muslim print and broadcast journalist, >> has written this remarkable >>> account of the 'Stranded Pakistanis,' trapped in >> internment camps in >>> Bangladesh since 1972." (Zafar Bangash, Director >> of Institute of >>> Contemporary Islamic Thought.) >>> For more information: >>> e-mail: haq_for_u@xxxxxxxxxxx >>> info@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx >>> crescent@xxxxxxxxxxxx >>> crescent.uk@xxxxxxxxxxxxxx >>> Visit web sites: >> www.statelesspeopleinbangladesh.net >>> www.strandedpakistanis.com >>> www.OBATHelpers.org >> <http://www.obathelpers.org/> > >>> www.muslimedia.com >>> www.ihrc.org >>> >>> >>> >>> New Pacifica Working Group >>> http://www.egroups.com/group/NewPacifica >>> 'Save Our Stations!' >>> New Pacifica Working Group http://www.egroups.com/group/NewPacifica 'Save Our Stations!' Yahoo! Groups Links <*> To visit your group on the web, go to: http://groups.yahoo.com/group/NewPacifica/ <*> To unsubscribe from this group, send an email to: NewPacifica-unsubscribe@xxxxxxxxxxxxxxx <*> Your use of Yahoo! Groups is subject to: http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/